# Impact of Trump's Executive Order to Stop Splitting Up Families **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476 "2018-06-20T23:04:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/1 "2018-06-20T23:04:18Z")
[Trump signed an order today](https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/gop-leaders-voice-hope-that-bill-addressing-family-separations-will-pass-thursday/2018/06/20/cc79db9a-7480-11e8-b4b7-308400242c2e_story.html?utm_term=.04bfaef2d6f8) reversing an earlier administration policy to split up families and create child camps. > [@](#): > > President Trump abruptly reversed course Wednesday, signing an executive order ending family separations at the U.S.-Mexico border after a public uproar over the impact of his administration’s “zero tolerance” immigration policy. > > The plan would keep families together in federal custody while awaiting prosecution for illegal border crossings, potentially violating a 1997 court settlement limiting the duration of child detentions. Note that the 1997 ruling is [not the only court ruling](https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/06/14/us/politics/ap-us-immigration-fact-check.html?login=google) that has precedence here. > [@](#): > > In 2015, a federal judge in Los Angeles expanded the terms of the settlement, ruling that it applies to children who are caught with their parents as well as to those who come to the U.S. alone. Other recent rulings, upheld on appeal, affirm the children’s rights to a bond hearing and require better conditions at the Border Patrol’s short-term holding facilities. > > In 2016, the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that child migrants who came to the border with parents and were held in custody must be released. The decision did not state parents must be released. Neither, though, did it require parents to be kept in detention, apart from their children. Here is [Trump’s order](https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/affording-congress-opportunity-address-family-separation/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wh). There are two sections that stick out for me: > [@](#): > > (c) The Secretary of Defense shall take all legally available measures to provide to the Secretary, upon request, any existing facilities available for the housing and care of alien families, and shall construct such facilities if necessary and consistent with law. The Secretary, to the extent permitted by law, shall be responsible for reimbursement for the use of these facilities. Does this mean that more people are ending up in internment camps? It reads that way to me. > [@](#): > > (e) The Attorney General shall promptly file a request with the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California to modify the Settlement Agreement in Flores v. Sessions, CV 85-4544 (“Flores settlement”), in a manner that would permit the Secretary, under present resource constraints, to detain alien families together throughout the pendency of criminal proceedings for improper entry or any removal or other immigration proceedings. This section indicates that Sessions has been instructed to fight the 1997 ruling, but it seems to ignore the 2015, and 2016 rulings, which is interesting. Put another way, under current law, the administration cannot do what this order lays out until and unless those rulings are struck down. Also, what about the children who are currently in the camps? What are the plans to reunite them with their families? We’re talking thousands of children. This is not just happening in the South by the way, although news articles give that impression. There are families impacted here in Oregon. I suspect that there are at other crossings as well. Finally, what are the plans to make our borders checkpoints available to asylum seekers? Currently, reports are that they are closed. We may choose as a country not to grant asylum (which is another issue), but we should allow people to apply. This is also not addressed. Therefore, we are artificially creating this problem in the first place. Overall, I conclude that this measure may reduce pressure on Trump in the near term, but is illegal under current US law. I also remain concerned about all of the children already separated from their parents. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/2 "2018-06-20T23:16:01Z")
There are no plans to reunite the separated families: > Family separation is still in place: > “Zero tolerance” is still in force: > ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/3 "2018-06-20T23:26:11Z")
The order was a big show that did nothing, in other words? I am _shocked_. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/4 "2018-06-21T06:48:42Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Does this mean that more people are ending up in internment camps? It reads that way to me. First the problem was OMG the children! and now the real objection comes out: Your side does not want to detain illegal immigrants at all. Would you call a county jail an internment camp? These people are suspected of committing crimes and taken into custody. Because of the whining, their children are taken into custody along with them. What, in your mind, should be done here? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/5 "2018-06-21T06:52:13Z")
Do you agree that “taken into custody together” is better than “taken into custody apart”? You act like you don’t agree. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/6 "2018-06-21T06:59:14Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Do you agree that “taken into custody together” is better than “taken into custody apart”? You act like you don’t agree. Of course it is better and I agree. However the OP used the phrase “internment camps” like we are still doing something wrong. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/7 "2018-06-21T06:59:44Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Do you agree that “taken into custody together” is better than “taken into custody apart”? You act like you don’t agree. Sounds like everyone will be happier with this new state of affairs. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/8 "2018-06-21T07:06:11Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Of course it is better and I agree. However the OP used the phrase “internment camps” like we are still doing something wrong. I just wanted to get a baseline. Next question, are these ppl given an option to post bail? Are they being given legal representation? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/9 "2018-06-21T07:06:31Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > First the problem was OMG the children! and now the real objection comes out: Your side does not want to detain illegal immigrants at all. > > Would you call a county jail an internment camp? These people are suspected of committing crimes and taken into custody. Because of the whining, their children are taken into custody along with them. > > What, in your mind, should be done here? How about not taking anyone into custody? There’s no law that requires someone facing a misdemeanour charge to be held in jail pending trial. Could they not be bailed to immigration detention, where they could stay with their families? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/10 "2018-06-21T07:23:06Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > I just wanted to get a baseline. > > Next question, are these ppl given an option to post bail? Are they being given legal representation? > [@UDS](#): > > How about not taking anyone into custody? > > There’s no law that requires someone facing a misdemeanour charge to be held in jail pending trial. Could they not be bailed to immigration detention, where they could stay with their families? I assume that they arrive at the border with just the clothes on their backs. How would they post even minimal bail? Oh, should they be released on their own recognizance? Let’s see, they have no job, no ties to the community, no family support system, no reliable identification, and the goal of any illegal immigration is to sneak in and fly under the radar: exactly what would happen if they were released on recognizance. A judge applying neutral principles would be crazy to allow it. Appointed counsel? Why should the taxpayers have to pay for that? These people are here for 4 seconds and already have their hand in the till? In any event, this isn’t my area of expertise, but I do believe that they have access to counsel. Again, I am not unsympathetic to the plight of these people. What I object to is this implication that they are entitled to assistance from the United States and entitled to gold plated treatment after coming here illegally. As any sovereign nation, we are entitled to deny entry at our borders. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/11 "2018-06-21T07:27:45Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I assume that they arrive at the border with just the clothes on their backs. How would they post even minimal bail? Oh, should they be released on their own recognizance? Let’s see, they have no job, no ties to the community, no family support system, no reliable identification, and the goal of any illegal immigration is to sneak in and fly under the radar: exactly what would happen if they were released on recognizance . . . Did you miss the bit where I said “bailed **into immigration detention** ”? > [@UltraVires](#): > > Again, I am not unsympathetic to the plight of these people. What I object to is this implication that they are entitled to assistance from the United States and entitled to gold plated treatment after coming here illegally. As any sovereign nation, we are entitled to deny entry at our borders. There’s a large middle ground, though, between “entitled to gold plated treatment” and “entitled not to have your children snatched from their families and dumped in camps with other snatched children”. This thread is more about the latter. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/12 "2018-06-21T07:52:12Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I assume that they arrive at the border with just the clothes on their backs. You seem to be doing a lot of assuming > [@](#): > > How would they post even minimal bail? more assuming. But not the question I asked. Do they even have that option, assuming, of course, they had the means? > [@](#): > > Oh, should they be released on their own recognizance? Let’s see, they have no job, no ties to the community, no family support system, no reliable identification, and the goal of any illegal immigration is to sneak in and fly under the radar: exactly what would happen if they were released on recognizance. or they might want, you know, to apply for assylum. > [@](#): > > Appointed counsel? Why should the taxpayers have to pay for that? something about human rights, maybe? > [@](#): > > These people are here for 4 seconds and already have their hand in the till? In any event, this isn’t my area of expertise, but I do believe that they have access to counsel. So for the record, you are against human rights and an expanded tax base? (I don’t know the answer to my question re:legal council either and would love to be deignoranced) > [@](#): > > Again, I am not unsympathetic to the plight of these people. What I object to is this implication that they are entitled to assistance from the United States and entitled to gold plated treatment after coming here illegally. As any sovereign nation, we are entitled to deny entry at our borders. I love hyperbole more than anything that’s ever happened in all of history. But really? Gold plated? We’re talking about the sheer minimum of human rights. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/13 "2018-06-21T10:34:22Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Again, I am not unsympathetic to the plight of these people. What I object to is this implication that they are entitled to assistance from the United States and entitled to gold plated treatment after coming here illegally. As any sovereign nation, we are entitled to deny entry at our borders. I can only wonder how you would suggest they be treated if you were unsympathetic. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/14 "2018-06-21T10:59:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Sounds like everyone will be happier with this new state of affairs. I won’t be, Trump’s victims won’t be, your feelings don’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/15 "2018-06-21T11:11:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Sounds like everyone will be happier with this new state of affairs. For the record, I declare that I consider going from “worse than Hitler” to “like Hitler” an improvement in approach. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/16 "2018-06-21T12:14:40Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > These people are suspected of committing crimes and taken into custody. It is as legal as church on Sunday for furriners to seek asylum here by presenting themselves at the border. You have been corrected on this point numerous times in these threads, so I can no longer attribute this blanket “these people are suspected of committing crimes” as an error resulting from ignorance. You are intentionally repeating an untruth. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/17 "2018-06-21T12:28:10Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > What I object to is this implication that they are entitled to assistance from the United States and entitled to gold plated treatment… Seeing as how gold plating is only 1 micron(0.001 millimeter) thick, I thought you would be o.k. with that miniscule amount of human rights, but apparently even that small amount is too much for you to accept. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/18 "2018-06-21T12:48:47Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > First the problem was OMG the children! and now the real objection comes out: Your side does not want to detain illegal immigrants at all. Is the goal to detain and imprison illegal immigrant or is the goal to get them out of our country? Because if it is the latter then liberals [were doing great at that job.](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obamas-deportation-policy-numbers/story?id=41715661) Personally I would rather not spend my tax dollars on detaining kids indefinitely. You seem ok with that though for some reason. I am curious. What problem do you think Trump is now solving that was worse before him? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/19 "2018-06-21T13:24:37Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > First the problem was OMG the children! and now the real objection comes out: Your side does not want to detain illegal immigrants at all. No, our side doesn’t want to detain illegal immigrants when it doesn’t make sense to detain them. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/20 "2018-06-21T13:37:45Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > How about not taking anyone into custody? > > There’s no law that requires someone facing a misdemeanour charge to be held in jail pending trial. Could they not be bailed to immigration detention, where they could stay with their families? Well, that’s what we did before, “catch and release”. The results of catch and release are that people are released into the country without background checks, which is dangerous for us. Then there’s the part that’s dangerous for them: 1. They are released and given a court date 2. 37% fail to show up to court 3. They become wanted felons and fugitives 4. Once caught they face long jail terms and permanent or long term seperation from their families, followed by deportation. You’ll have to convince me that this is a superior policy. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476.md?page=2)