# Impact of Trump's Executive Order to Stop Splitting Up Families **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476 "2018-06-20T23:04:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/21 "2018-06-21T13:39:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, our side doesn’t want to detain illegal immigrants when it doesn’t make sense to detain them. They fail to appear in court in large numbers. 37% according to one immigration judge: [http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article144893699.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article144893699.html) As a general principle, we detain people who are flight risks. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/22 "2018-06-21T13:40:48Z")
That number is totally bogus. The actual government stats are between 14% and 1% depending on the program and population in question. The Trump Administration ended a program that had a 99% appearance rate. They should re-start it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/23 "2018-06-21T13:42:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They fail to appear in court in large numbers. 37% according to one immigration judge: > > [http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article144893699.html](http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article144893699.html) > > As a general principle, we detain people who are flight risks. Hmm… From another thread: > [@The law DOES require them to separate children from their families](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-law-does-require-them-to-separate-children-from-their-families/816339/120): > > I heard an interesting piece on NPR this morning, and followed up on it. > > In January 2016, ICE started a program known as the “[Family Case Management Program](http://www.aila.org/infonet/ice-fact-sheet-family-case-management-program)” which was an alternative to detention, dealing with people who are supposed to go to immigration court and lived in a handful of cities that were part of a pilot program. One of the top criteria for entering the program was whether the person had young children, and they were seeking asylum. Basically, the same population that is embroiled in the controversy today. > > Now get this, you people who look kindly on locking up children in cages because “we just have to” – the program, before the Trump Administration shut it down, resulted in **99 percent of its enrollees showing up for immigration court** , including families who were ultimately deported. This program also cost **[about nine times less](https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Foreign-Policy/2017/0609/ICE-shutters-helpful-family-management-program-amid-budget-cuts)** than the daily cost of a detention center bed. > > And furthermore, I just learned there was another alternative to detention [that according to an IG review](https://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/2015/OIG_15-22_Feb15.pdf) appears to have been about 95% successful in keeping asylum seekers from absconding. > > So when people like Trump, Sessions, Neilsen, and other depraved individuals claim that they have no choice under the law, they are lying. They STOPPED a legal program that appears to have been extremely successful, in order to abuse children. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/24 "2018-06-21T13:50:31Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > There are no plans to reunite the separated families: > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/emilymbadger/status/1009565034446385152?s=19) > > Family separation is still in place: > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/CallanGrayNews/status/1009572951635759104?s=19) > > “Zero tolerance” is still in force: > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/tisaiahcho/status/1009572720550408192?s=19) > [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > The order was a big show that did nothing, in other words? I am _shocked_. I’m skeptical of this whole thing too, but can we give it more than an hour before we declare it to have done nothing? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/25 "2018-06-21T13:56:06Z")
If the numbers aren’t so bad, then by all means return to catch and release. But step up enforcement on fugitives. There’s just no excuse for it and it should be punished severely just as if an American did it. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/26 "2018-06-21T14:03:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m skeptical of this whole thing too, but can we give it more than an hour before we declare it to have done nothing? No. There is no need to wait given _an explicit statement_ that the criminal cabal in chief has no intention of even attempting to undo the damage already done. From the first link: > [@](#): > > Trump Retreats on Separating Families, but Thousands Will Remain Apart > “There will not be a grandfathering of existing cases,” said Kenneth Wolfe, a spokesman for the Administration for Children and Families. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/27 "2018-06-21T14:07:14Z")
The result is that someone is going to sue to stop it. I’m surprised that hasn’t happened already. Trump will immediately blame the plaintiffs and court for wanting to separate children. This will take the heat off him in regards to Republicans. Democrats, probably not. Maybe gets appealed all the way to the SC. I predict after the lawsuit blocks his EO, Trump will re-implement catch and release, unless congress enacts something, which I highly doubt. This is a winning issue for Democrats. They’re not going to agree to anything until after the mid-terms. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/28 "2018-06-21T14:10:48Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If the numbers aren’t so bad, then by all means return to catch and release. But step up enforcement on fugitives. There’s just no excuse for it and it should be punished severely just as if an American did it. I’m “soft” on immigration, by which I mean that of all the illegal things that someone can do in this country, entering illegally is way at the bottom of the priority list. “Catch and release” is a term from fishing, and it’s gross to apply it to human beings. Folks whose life in their own country is so awful that they’re willing to leave it all behind to move here? I’d rather spend our resources helping them integrate into our society than imprisoning them and their children. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/29 "2018-06-21T14:17:57Z")
Part of integrating is obeying a court order to appear. Once they flout that it’s time to go. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/30 "2018-06-21T14:19:21Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It is as legal as church on Sunday for furriners to seek asylum here by presenting themselves at the border. > > You have been corrected on this point numerous times in these threads, so I can no longer attribute this blanket “these people are suspected of committing crimes” as an error resulting from ignorance. You are intentionally repeating an untruth. I’m a bit unclear on the population in question, and I haven’t even bothered asking until now because the SDMB is so ate-up with emotional rants on the subject and light on facts lately that it seemed futile, but maybe I’ll have more luck with you today: Isn’t it the case that (some/many of) the people who have been separated from their children are suspected of committing a crime and the government intends to prosecute them, and that’s why they’ve been detained? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/31 "2018-06-21T14:23:55Z")
Oh man, now you’re getting into tough stuff because the government can’t be trusted to tell the truth. They keep on changing their story on stuff like this. One thing I do know is that many minors are actually unaccompanied and adults are claiming them as their own to avoid detention. I’m hoping that proof of guardianship is being required before people get to enter with kids. These are not stone age countries. Births are documented, adoptions are documented. If you want to bring your kids, you have to bring proof they are yours. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/32 "2018-06-21T14:24:57Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Isn’t it the case that (some/many of) the people who have been separated from their children are suspected of committing a crime and the government intends to prosecute them, and that’s why they’ve been detained? If that’s the narrative you wish to push, then I think it is up to you to provide the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/33 "2018-06-21T14:31:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If that’s the narrative you wish to push, then I think it is up to you to provide the evidence. My post amounts to asking RTFirefly for evidence to support his claim (that “these people are suspected of committing crimes” is an “untruth”). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/34 "2018-06-21T14:32:28Z")
Well they aren’t suspected, they crossed the border illegally. There is no outcome in court that results in them being allowed to stay short of a successful asylum claim. Guilty: they crossed illegally and have to go home. Innocent: they didn’t cross illegally, they still have to go home. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/35 "2018-06-21T14:35:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Oh man, now you’re getting into tough stuff because the government can’t be trusted to tell the truth. They keep on changing their story on stuff like this. “The government”, as in a Democratic administration would be just as bad? No, it’s just Trump and his deplorables. > [@](#): > > One thing I do know is that many minors are actually unaccompanied and adults are claiming them as their own to avoid detention. You \*know \*that? From what source? > [@adaher](#): > > Well they aren’t suspected, they crossed the border illegally. Many, after being physically barred right at the border from entering at points where they could ask for asylum. Did you just not know that? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/36 "2018-06-21T14:39:33Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > It is as legal as church on Sunday for furriners to seek asylum here by presenting themselves at the border. > > You have been corrected on this point numerous times in these threads, so I can no longer attribute this blanket “these people are suspected of committing crimes” as an error resulting from ignorance. You are intentionally repeating an untruth. It’s way too early in the morning for me to try and parse this favorably. Don’t do this - don’t appear to accuse other posters of lying. Steer well clear of this. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/37 "2018-06-21T14:40:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m a bit unclear on the population in question, and I haven’t even bothered asking until now because the SDMB is so ate-up with emotional rants on the subject and light on facts lately that it seemed futile, but maybe I’ll have more luck with you today: > > Isn’t it the case that (some/many of) the people who have been separated from their children are suspected of committing a crime and the government intends to prosecute them, and that’s why they’ve been detained? I believe this is your answer, unless (a) you’re going to accuse the high quality reportage of the _New Yorker_ of being “ate-up with emotional rants on the subject”, or (b) you’re going to dredge up the circular argument that people who crossed the border illegally should be treated as criminals because they crossed the border illegally. Perhaps you’d be good enough to clarify just what you meant by “suspected of committing a crime”. Emphasis mine in the quote below: [Trump] reversed course because he had no choice politically. Although he often adopts the rhetoric and body language of an authoritarian strongman, he’s an elected politician. And in the face of mass outrage, bipartisan opposition, and condemnation from church groups and other civil-society institutions, the child-separation policy was no longer sustainable. **But Trump didn’t reverse the policy of “zero tolerance” that his Administration introduced in May, which obliges immigration agents to arrest and detain anybody who crosses the border outside an official entry point.** The Times reported that the new executive order was designed “to get around an existing 1997 consent decree, known as the Flores settlement, that prohibits the federal government from keeping children in immigration detention—even if they are with their parents—for more than 20 days.” If Trump gets his way, families stopped at the border will now be detained indefinitely under the custody of ICE. That is precisely the outcome that the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit deemed illegal in a 2016 ruling about the Flores settlement. > **[Why a Rogue President Was Forced to Back Down on Family Separation](https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/why-a-rogue-president-was-forced-to-back-down-on-family-separation)** > > Clearly, Trump didn’t make this U-turn because he had grown tired of fear-mongering and racial incitement, or because he had experienced a crisis of conscience. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/38 "2018-06-21T15:33:43Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > … Perhaps you’d be good enough to clarify just what you meant by “suspected of committing a crime”. … It’s my understanding that crossing the border illegally / “outside an official entry point” is a crime (a misdemeanor, it seems). Do we agree on at least that much? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/39 "2018-06-21T15:40:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Part of integrating is obeying a court order to appear. Once they flout that it’s time to go. That’s a lovely Catch-22, isn’t it? Hey, immigrants! We want you to immigrate! As part of that process, we’ve set up immigration standards for folks from your country that make it damn near impossible for you to immigrate legally. We’re stepping up deportation proceedings massively, too. And if you don’t appear at the court proceeding where you’ll most likely be deported, that’s a sure sign you don’t want to immigrate, which means it’s time for you to leave our country. Yeah, can’t see how that contradicts what I said at all. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/40 "2018-06-21T15:47:47Z")
True, we do have a system that fails to meet demand for immigration from Latin America. But that’s a choice American voters make. We’ll take X number of people in, and that number must be diverse, rather than 90% from Latin America. That’s an issue to take up within the democratic system, not by having laws that aren’t enforced because they don’t match your policy desire to have an undiverse group of immigrants enter the country in larger numbers than American voters want. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476.md?page=3)