# Impact of Trump's Executive Order to Stop Splitting Up Families **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476 "2018-06-20T23:04:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/81 "2018-06-21T17:48:36Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > [Here are some statistics from the UN from 2017](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/06/19/children-refugee-population-syria-afghanistan-south-sudan/702806002/): > > The vast majority of refugees are fleeing conflict. So there’s less conflict, yet more people fleeing what conflict there is? What would cause that to occur? Are we defining conflict more broadly? Syria and Congo are certainly in conflict. Colombia is not under any definition I’ve heard of. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/82 "2018-06-21T17:48:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It is a very bad idea to ever illegally cross into a country you are not authorized to be in. The world has standards for asylum cases: you apply in the first safe country you reach, and you will be allowed to remain there while your case is being adjudicated. Initial entry must be by legal means. So simple, so wrong. From the US Citizenship and Immigration [website](https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/asylum/obtaining-asylum-united-states): > [@](#): > > To obtain asylum through the affirmative asylum process **you must be physically present in the United States**. You may apply for asylum status **regardless of how you arrived in the United States** or your current immigration status. Bolding mine. > [@](#): > > A defensive application for asylum occurs when you request asylum as a defense against removal from the U.S. For asylum processing to be defensive, you must be in removal proceedings in immigration court with the Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR). You (and many others) are also confusing refugee status and asylum-seeker status. When a person applies for entry into the US from his own country due to persecution, he is seeking refugee status. A person applying for asylum applies from within the US. Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/83 "2018-06-21T17:51:05Z")
It is still a very bad idea to enter illegally into any country. In most of the world’s borders, they will shoot you if they catch you trying to cross and you don’t halt when ordered. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/84 "2018-06-21T17:53:38Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It is still a very bad idea to enter illegally into any country. In most of the world’s borders, they will shoot you if they catch you trying to cross and you don’t halt when ordered. Just once, could you please provide a cite for your “facts”? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/85 "2018-06-21T17:54:31Z")
Go ahead and try to cross into Mexico illegally. I’ll wait. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/86 "2018-06-21T17:57:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Go ahead and try to cross into Mexico illegally. I’ll wait. That has got fuck-all to do with your claim. Try again with an actual cite that backs up your claim that “In most of the world’s borders, they will shoot you if they catch you trying to cross and you don’t halt when ordered.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/87 "2018-06-21T17:59:12Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So you don’t agree that attempting to cross outside of a port of entry is a misdemeanor crime? When the authorities prevent you from doing so legally, when in short they refuse to permit an asylum application, that \*should \*affect your thinking. > [@](#): > > I really would like to talk about it, but everyone just wants to launch into invectives about Trump. Or excuses for him. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/88 "2018-06-21T18:00:12Z")
What do you want, a study? Why don’t you instead name which countries you can cross into and NOT get shot? That would be Western countries and only Western countries. Attempting to enter China, Vietnam, Russia, countries in the Mideast, most African countries, many South American countries, they protect their border with deadly force, and if you are lucky enough not get shot when they catch you, you’ll wish they’d shot you by the time you got to prison. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/89 "2018-06-21T18:03:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > What do you want, a study? Why don’t you instead name which countries you can cross into and NOT get shot? That would be Western countries and only Western countries. Attempting to enter China, Vietnam, Russia, countries in the Mideast, most African countries, many South American countries, they protect their border with deadly force, and if you are lucky enough not get shot when they catch you, you’ll wish they’d shot you by the time you got to prison. It’s your claim-YOU back it up. “Prove it ain’t so!” just doesn’t cut it here, and it hasn’t for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/90 "2018-06-21T18:05:16Z")
Okay, so let’s get technical. How many countries do I need to prove shoot people attempting to cross the border to be right? It’ll take work but shouldn’t be too hard. 100 countries? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/91 "2018-06-21T18:07:41Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > What was going wrong? 12 million illegal immigrants. 100,000 caught and released in the last 15 months. 2,000 children separated in a six week period. Those numbers show the enormity of the problem. Do you agree that it is a problem? These are nice statistics, but you’ve failed to convince me that there is a problem. What problem? If you say “The problem that 12 million illegal immigrants are in the country” then meh. I don’t think that’s a problem. So, what’s the problem again? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/92 "2018-06-21T18:08:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Okay, so let’s get technical. How many countries do I need to prove shoot people attempting to cross the border to be right? It’ll take work but shouldn’t be too hard. 100 countries? Your claim was “most of them”. Since there are approximately 195 countries, 100 will do just fine. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/93 "2018-06-21T18:16:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Your claim was “most of them”. Since there are approximately 195 countries, 100 will do just fine. Let’s start with North Korea, since that one is well known. That’s one. This one actually surprises me: India [https://www.hrw.org/news/2011/01/23/indias-shoot-kill-policy-bangladesh-border](https://www.hrw.org/news/2011/01/23/indias-shoot-kill-policy-bangladesh-border) Pakistan, not surprisingly: > **[Closed Afghan-Pakistani Border Is Becoming ‘Humanitarian Crisis’ (Published...](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/05/world/asia/afghanistan-pakistan-border.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fworld&_r=0)** > > Thousands of Afghan visitors are stranded in Pakistan, and traders have been unable to move their vegetables and fruit across for nearly two weeks. Somalia killed Iranians for illegal fishing in their territorial waters: > **[Somali Forces Shoot and Kill Iranian Sailor in Indian Ocean](https://www.voanews.com/a/somalia-iran-puntland-shooting-incident/4061648.html)** > > Incident occurs after Puntland Maritime Police Forces spot two boats suspected of fishing illegally Friday in Somali waters The boats ignored orders to halt and attempted escape. Four down, 96 to go. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/94 "2018-06-21T18:17:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It is still a very bad idea to enter illegally into any country. In most of the world’s borders, they will shoot you if they catch you trying to cross and you don’t halt when ordered. Please don’t deflect. How other countries treat those who enter without documentation is irrelevant. The US government has made provisions in the past for people who enter the US illegally seeking asylum–or at least, it has until the current president. The US government has understood that entering the US legally isn’t always an option. It’s not a complex concept. Give it a try. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/95 "2018-06-21T18:18:41Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Let’s start with North Korea, since that one is well known. That’s one. > > This one actually surprises me: India > > [https://www.hrw.org/news/2011/01/23/indias-shoot-kill-policy-bangladesh-border](https://www.hrw.org/news/2011/01/23/indias-shoot-kill-policy-bangladesh-border) > > Pakistan, not surprisingly: > > [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/05/world/asia/afghanistan-pakistan-border.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fworld&\_r=0](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/05/world/asia/afghanistan-pakistan-border.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fworld&_r=0) > > Somalia killed Iranians for illegal fishing in their territorial waters: > > [Somali Forces Shoot and Kill Iranian Sailor in Indian Ocean](https://www.voanews.com/a/somalia-iran-puntland-shooting-incident/4061648.html) > > The boats ignored orders to halt and attempted escape. > > Four down, 96 to go. I’ve got all day. Keep going until you back up your claim. edited to add: You have to admit I was being rather generous for allowing 100 out of 195 to count for “most”, since it is barely over 50%. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/96 "2018-06-21T18:20:57Z")
The Somalia link seems suspect, since they were illegally fishing, and not trying to illegally cross the border. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/97 "2018-06-21T18:23:15Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > These are nice statistics, but you’ve failed to convince me that there is a problem. What problem? If you say “The problem that 12 million illegal immigrants are in the country” then meh. I don’t think that’s a problem. > > So, what’s the problem again? Then that’s an issue. You don’t think that those numbers are startling and that something needs to be done. I was accused of the excluded middle fallacy, but at least you have confirmed that is your opinion. Does anyone else have a solution? If the argument is “Let 'em all in” then of course we will have these debates about any immigration policy. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/98 "2018-06-21T18:29:00Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > The Somalia link seems suspect, since they were illegally fishing, and not trying to illegally cross the border. Still a border violation. Maritime borders matter too. Otherwise I can’t use Cuba and that will put me at a disadvantage.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/99 "2018-06-21T18:29:48Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Then that’s an issue. You don’t think that those numbers are startling and that something needs to be done. > > I was accused of the excluded middle fallacy, but at least you have confirmed that is your opinion. Does anyone else have a solution? > > If the argument is “Let 'em all in” then of course we will have these debates about any immigration policy. What needs to be done? And why? And is it worth it? I’m not arguing “Let 'em all in”, I’m against that, and against open borders. But you speak of “12 million illegal immigrants in the country!!!” as if it should be something I should wake up every morning worrying about because it’s such a big problem. I’m just not seeing the “big” problem. I wake up every morning, get ready, and go to work. Along the way, I stop at 7-11 for a coffee. And every morning, there are many (and here I might be stereo-typing or whatever) Hispanic looking guys, buying a lot of stuff at 7-11, before heading off to work to make things that people want to buy or live in. Why is that a problem? They are working, buying products, consuming, and producing. Isn’t that good? Further along the road, I see a white guy on a cell phone with a sign that says “Please give me money”. Which one is the problem again? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/100 "2018-06-21T18:30:48Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Still a border violation. Maritime borders matter too. Otherwise I can’t use Cuba and that will put me at a disadvantage.😃 I’ll allow it, since you have 90 or so more to go. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476.md?page=6)