# Impact of Trump's Executive Order to Stop Splitting Up Families **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476 "2018-06-20T23:04:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/101 "2018-06-21T18:31:06Z")
I don’t think vandalism is a huge problem in this country, but I still want people caught vandalising punished. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/102 "2018-06-21T18:31:28Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > If the argument is “Let 'em all in” then of course we will have these debates about any immigration policy. Because it is much easier to debate imaginary straw men then the actual arguments presented to date? The next time you bring up this “let 'em all in” crap, could you please name the poster you are “debating”? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/103 "2018-06-21T18:33:30Z")
Well, you gotta give me Cuba, given the regime’s reputation for imprisoning, torturing, and killing people who try to escape: [http://www.cubauncensored.com/the-escape-cubans-escaping-from-cuba/](http://www.cubauncensored.com/the-escape-cubans-escaping-from-cuba/) It doesn’t specifically say they were shot, but if they’ll torture you when they catch you, it’s logical to assume they’ll shoot you to stop you if you refuse to halt. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/104 "2018-06-21T18:37:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Still a border violation. Maritime borders matter too. Otherwise I can’t use Cuba and that will put me at a disadvantage.😃 I’ll allow it for two reasons: 1. You’re only up to 4% and, 2. I can’t wait to see how far you are going to stretch the parameters to make some of the countries fit. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/105 "2018-06-21T18:37:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Well, you gotta give me Cuba, given the regime’s reputation for imprisoning, torturing, and killing people who try to escape: > > [http://www.cubauncensored.com/the-escape-cubans-escaping-from-cuba/](http://www.cubauncensored.com/the-escape-cubans-escaping-from-cuba/) > > It doesn’t specifically say they were shot, but if they’ll torture you when they catch you, it’s logical to assume they’ll shoot you to stop you if you refuse to halt. :rolleyes: That is for emigrating, not immigrating. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/106 "2018-06-21T18:43:38Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > :rolleyes: > > That is for emigrating, not immigrating. I didn’t catch that, thanks. Sorry, Cuba is out, so you are down to 3%. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/107 "2018-06-21T18:49:49Z")
The Republican [message](http://theweek.com/speedreads/780527/melania-trump-flew-texas-visit-detained-immigrant-children-apparently-wore-jacket-that-said-really-dont-care) for the families that have already been split up: > [@](#): > > First lady Melania Trump faced extraordinary backlash last year when she traveled to visit victims of Hurricane Harvey in Texas while wearing “black snakeskin stilettos.” She’s really outdone herself this time, though: On Thursday, the first lady was photographed traveling to visit immigrant children who have been separated from their parents at the border due to her husband’s policies while apparently wearing a jacket that says “I REALLY DON’T CARE, DO U?” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/108 "2018-06-21T18:59:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t think vandalism is a huge problem in this country, but I still want people caught vandalising punished. I too think that people who destroy or deface other people’s property should be caught and punished. Now that we agree on that, can we move back to why illegal immigrants in the country are such a HUGE problem? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/109 "2018-06-21T19:02:02Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > What needs to be done? And why? And is it worth it? I’m not arguing “Let 'em all in”, I’m against that, and against open borders. But you speak of “12 million illegal immigrants in the country!!!” as if it should be something I should wake up every morning worrying about because it’s such a big problem. I’m just not seeing the “big” problem. > > I wake up every morning, get ready, and go to work. Along the way, I stop at 7-11 for a coffee. And every morning, there are many (and here I might be stereo-typing or whatever) Hispanic looking guys, buying a lot of stuff at 7-11, before heading off to work to make things that people want to buy or live in. Why is that a problem? They are working, buying products, consuming, and producing. Isn’t that good? Further along the road, I see a white guy on a cell phone with a sign that says “Please give me money”. > > Which one is the problem again? You contradict yourself. You blandly assert that you are not for open borders and then proclaim that it is no big deal because the Hispanic guys at 7-11 are pretty cool so no problem. Which is it? Just because a problem hasn’t reached crisis level so that a citizen is unable to get coffee in the morning does not mean it is not a problem, again, unless you have no problem with open borders. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/110 "2018-06-21T19:02:34Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Should we just open up the gates and let them all in? Oddly enough, this is exactly the policy I remember being advocated in Forbes by certain right-leaners and libertarians a decade or two ago. (Sorry, no cite – too long ago!) Considering the [widely documented economic benefits of immigration](https://www.bushcenter.org/catalyst/north-american-century/benefits-of-immigration-outweigh-costs.html), I think the burden of evidence should be on those who believe immigration should be limited at all. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/111 "2018-06-21T19:03:52Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You contradict yourself. You blandly assert that you are not for open borders and then proclaim that it is no big deal because the Hispanic guys at 7-11 are pretty cool so no problem. Which is it? > > Just because a problem hasn’t reached crisis level so that a citizen is unable to get coffee in the morning does not mean it is not a problem, again, unless you have no problem with open borders. They are already here. So the status of the border doesn’t really have anything to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/112 "2018-06-21T19:05:46Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > They are already here. So the status of the border doesn’t really have anything to do with it. They are not supposed to be here. What do you believe should happen if an ICE agents finds someone here illegally? Further, even if you support amnesty for those already here, shouldn’t we stop future illegal immigrants? Even if you do not believe it is a huge problem, should we simply ignore the misdemeanor crime of illegal entry in all cases? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/113 "2018-06-21T19:10:00Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Oddly enough, this is exactly the policy I remember being advocated in Forbes by certain right-leaners and libertarians a decade or two ago. (Sorry, no cite – too long ago!) Considering the [widely documented economic benefits of immigration](https://www.bushcenter.org/catalyst/north-american-century/benefits-of-immigration-outweigh-costs.html), I think the burden of evidence should be on those who believe immigration should be limited at all. Are you advocating for this policy? I am simply trying to establish the baseline where we are coming from. I don’t care if Obama did this or Bush did that or Trump does this. What at the base level do we have a disagreement about? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/114 "2018-06-21T19:13:26Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You contradict yourself. You blandly assert that you are not for open borders and then proclaim that it is no big deal because the Hispanic guys at 7-11 are pretty cool so no problem. Which is it? > > Just because a problem hasn’t reached crisis level so that a citizen is unable to get coffee in the morning does not mean it is not a problem, again, unless you have no problem with open borders. Jesus, can you construct an argument without the boogeymen of “the US is going to be like Tokyo in a few years!” or “I bet you think we should start INVITING the terrorists in!!” Get a grip, man. And let’s just rememeber that almost every country in the world has some degree of open borders – save places like North Korea that are fairly called closed – so stop using the term open borders like it is something scary. Having a country be open is the normal state of affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/115 "2018-06-21T19:15:57Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > They are not supposed to be here. What do you believe should happen if an ICE agents finds someone here illegally? So what? The fact is, they are already here. If ICE agents have nothing better to do then go around looking for law-abiding illegal immigrants, then we should cut funding for ICE. > [@](#): > > Further, even if you support amnesty for those already here, shouldn’t we stop future illegal immigrants? Even if you do not believe it is a huge problem, should we simply ignore the misdemeanor crime of illegal entry in all cases? I believe we should first go after judges who fraudulently submit travel claims. After they are all put away for actual felonies, THEN we can worry about people who commit misdemeanors. How’s that plan grab you? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/116 "2018-06-21T19:16:23Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > What was going wrong? 12 million illegal immigrants. 100,000 caught and released in the last 15 months. 2,000 children separated in a six week period. Those numbers show the enormity of the problem. Do you agree that it is a problem? > > Is it fixed? Hell, no. Is that the standard? If a policy doesn’t fully and completely solve a problem in six weeks we need to shitcan it and start over? The 12 million ‘illegal immigrants’ have, by and large, been here years, many of them for decades. Many of them were here legally and then overstayed their visas, hence the scare quotes. They take shit jobs and work and pay taxes and stuff. The only way they’re a problem is that you’re defining them as a problem. Sure, they’re here illegally, but in what sense would they be a problem if Trump had an about-face and pardoned them all, making them all legal? If there’s no good answer to that, then in what way is their presence problematic enough to spend a lot of money trying to get rid of them? Why wouldn’t it make more sense to do what we’ve done at least once in the past, and give a blanket amnesty to those who have become productive members of our society? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/117 "2018-06-21T19:25:17Z")
I’m really trying here, but all I keep hearing is that we should just let them all in. If that is the case, then let’s start from that proposition and debate that. If that is the starting point, then we are wasting our time debating Trump’s particular policy because you would not support ANY policy that detained people coming in violation of the law. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/118 "2018-06-21T19:26:22Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Are you advocating for this policy? I’m advocating for the idea to at least be in the conversation. If immigration is a net economic good, maybe laws should place the burden of demonstrating reasons for exclusion on the state as opposed to placing the burden of demonstrating reasons for inclusion on the immigrant. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/119 "2018-06-21T19:27:50Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I’m really trying here, but all I keep hearing is that we should just let them all in. If that is the case, then let’s start from that proposition and debate that. If that is the starting point, then we are wasting our time debating Trump’s particular policy because you would not support ANY policy that detained people coming in violation of the law. Surprisingly, I also do not support ANY policy that detained people for speeding. Or stealing a loaf of bread. Or jaywalking. I’d rather our law enforcement be focused on dangerous type stuff. I’m funny like that. Before a person gets on a plane to travel to the US, they need a visa. If they don’t have a visa, they don’t get on the plane. I’m for that policy. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/120 "2018-06-21T19:33:28Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > we are wasting our time debating Trump’s particular policy because you would not support ANY policy that detained people coming in violation of the law. Yes, the debate has migrated a bit. But Trump’s policy is the worst possible manifestation (so far) of a mindset that views all undocumented immigration as an evil that must be stopped. Maybe it’s pointless to debate whether detainee families should be separated or kept together without asking, why are they being detained at all? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476.md?page=7)