# Impact of Trump's Executive Order to Stop Splitting Up Families **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476 "2018-06-20T23:04:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/161 "2018-06-21T23:44:45Z")
Economic theory, not “my thoughts”, says that economic growth is correlated with population growth. Population statistics show white people are dying faster than birthing. If you want economic growth in this country, you need population growth. This means you need immigrants, this means you largely need “brown” people, because white people are not emigrating to America (or having babies in America) in the numbers needed to ensure economic growth. How did you not understand this? Did you not read my cites? I’ll be glad to link to more economic papers for you. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/162 "2018-06-21T23:47:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Your point appears to be that we can’t possibly build an “economically robust” country without non-white immigrants. I’m not convinced that importing a bunch of people who were unable to build an economically robust country in their native land is the recipe for success that you seem to believe it to be. Your thoughts? When in this nation’s history were immigrants primarily people who were successful and prosperous in their home country? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/163 "2018-06-21T23:54:00Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Economic theory, not “my thoughts”, says that economic growth is correlated with population growth. … From [the CIA World Factbook](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/print_gt.html): > [@](#): > > Guatemala is the most populous country in Central America and has the highest fertility rate in Latin America. It also has the highest population growth rate in Latin America, which is likely to continue because of its large reproductive-age population and high birth rate. > [@](#): > > Guatemala is the most populous country in Central America with a GDP per capita roughly half the average for Latin America and the Caribbean. WTF is wrong with economic theory that it apparently does not apply in Guatemala? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/164 "2018-06-22T00:02:17Z")
Because population growth is a necessary precondition to the development of the industrial bourgeoisie. Didn’t you get that in middle school? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/165 "2018-06-22T00:05:49Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > You didn’t ask for MY thoughts, but I’d like yours. Do you really think robust economies are built by the workers and lower class? I’m not asking if you think they work hard or contribute to the economy of their countries of origin; I’m asking if you think they build them. If so, then I guess shame on all of us workers and retired workers in the US; it must be entirely our own fault–not Wall Street’s, not the president’s, not congress’s or the federal reserve, but ours. And 10 years ago, when we were unable to build a robust economy here in the US, that was on us? No, I don’t think I’d generally credit the poor and working-class with “building” the economy. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/166 "2018-06-22T00:12:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m not convinced that importing a bunch of people who were unable to build an economically robust country in their native land is the recipe for success that you seem to believe it to be. Your thoughts? It would be interesting to know how well they might have done if the US (white people in your example) didn’t work diligently to fuck up these countries. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/167 "2018-06-22T00:24:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No, I don’t think I’d generally credit the poor and working-class with “building” the economy. If you get rid of the poor and working class who do you think will be buying enough iPods to make Apple rich? If you want to go further back who is building the railroads across the country? Do you think Vanderbilt and Crocker were swinging sledgehammers out there? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/168 "2018-06-22T00:34:12Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Your point appears to be that we can’t possibly build an “economically robust” country without non-white immigrants. I’m not convinced that importing a bunch of people who were unable to build an economically robust country in their native land is the recipe for success that you seem to believe it to be. Your thoughts? As it turns out, I come from one of those countries. I’m an educator now in the USA. I have to agree with **JohnT** , that response you made is beneath you and this board. You can only make that sorry point by grossly ignoring that war and USA intervention is favor of oligarchs was the reason why people like me left El Salvador. It was however by noticing that not all Americans were in favor of the imperialistic tendencies of many Republicans that I decided to accept the amnesty that Reagan ended offering, [after lawsuits showed that he had overplayed his hand when he tried to deny that Central Americans had no reason to ask for asylum](https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/central-americans-and-asylum-policy-reagan-era). I became a citizen in 1997. Thanks to that, countries like El Salvador are getting a lot of aid from remittances from people like me and it would had increased the economy there, but then a lot of people that were indeed the bad hombres were deported for gang activity. Unfortunately a lot of those were deported with no warning whatsoever to the local authorities and started a new cycle of violence. Before you forget, I have to remind you that the USA was also part of that, although they have less blame now as it had in the civil war of the 80’s. And now, thanks in big part of having to deal with more deported people (not all of them gangsters) coming to a place with less jobs thanks to violence and corruption I see a chronic ignorance of the factors that got us here and now Trump and minions just want to make the situation worse. \*\*While the result also leads to having more people later coming to America. \*\* As I can see from your replies, you do seem to agree that people from those countries will “infest” the USA. I will have to tell you however that Trump is actually making sure that more will come to the USA while lying his ass off telling guys like you that he is fixing the issue. Please continue governor… ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/169 "2018-06-22T00:49:38Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As it turns out, I come from one of those countries. I’m an educator now in the USA. > > I have to agree with **JohnT** , that response you made is beneath you and this board. … I’ll try to get a response to the rest of what you said sooner rather than later, but I’m surprised by this. It seems so obviously true that I would have thought it is beyond dispute that El Salvador is neither a “white country” nor “one that is economically robust”. What about that response caused you distress? (ETA: and **JohnT** feel free to chime in here with any clarification you have as well) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/170 "2018-06-22T00:55:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’ll try to get a response to the rest of what you said sooner rather than later, but I’m surprised by this. It seems so obviously true that I would have thought it is beyond dispute that El Salvador is neither a “white country” nor “one that is economically robust”. What about that response caused you distress? As I said, please continue to dig deeper. Not my problem that prejudice flows from Trump supporters with a blissful quality. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/171 "2018-06-22T01:00:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Your point appears to be that we can’t possibly build an “economically robust” country without non-white immigrants. I’m not convinced that importing a bunch of people who were unable to build an economically robust country in their native land is the recipe for success that you seem to believe it to be. Your thoughts? It was quite the recipe for success when my grandparents came over. Why should it be any different now? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/172 "2018-06-22T01:14:17Z")
> [@](#): > > “Give me your tired, your poor, > Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, > The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. > Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, > I lift my lamp beside the golden door!” That Emma Lazarus, what an asshole, amiright? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/173 "2018-06-22T01:15:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’ll try to get a response to the rest of what you said sooner rather than later, but I’m surprised by this. It seems so obviously true that I would have thought it is beyond dispute that El Salvador is neither a “white country” nor “one that is economically robust”. What about that response caused you distress? (ETA: and **JohnT** feel free to chime in here with any clarification you have as well) I don’t need to guy. You have the cites, read them. And you can stop this purposeful misdirection that I was speaking of El Salvador. Piketty specifically referenced the ecoomic growth of the developing West, this thread is about America. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/174 "2018-06-22T01:39:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Wow. This shit is actually indicative of Trump’s pro-diversity views? MAGA! That was some outstanding reasoning right there, I tell ya. > > We are \*not \*letting in one fewer Norwegian for every Salvadoran refugee. :dubious: > > Again: Where are you getting these alternative facts from? > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > We can start by \*not \*blaming the families bringing their children for being forcibly separated from them. > > We aren’t going to have a useful discussion if you’re going to base your positions on alternative facts. You first use of “alternative facts” is aimed at the administration and gets a pass. Your second use of “alternative facts” is directed toward a poster and violates the “Do not accuse another poster of lying” prohibition. Knock it off. Since using it one way tends to lead on to use it the prohibited way, it would be better to just refrain from using the phrase. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/175 "2018-06-22T01:49:52Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Further, this crime is being committed at such a massive level that jails will not hold everyone. The government is handling a situation that is not its fault. This idea of concentration camps and human rights violation is absurd. And how many military bases have been closed that are still sitting there complete with housing, barracks, chow halls and fences? Plunk the families in housing, fill the commisairy with raw materials to be drawn by ‘rations in kind’ to be cooked at home, or the families can eat in the chow hall. Most of them also have buildings that can be purposed into classsrooms and babysitting areas, and have medical facilities to cre for the health needs. Not rocket science, people. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/176 "2018-06-22T01:50:41Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not my problem that prejudice flows from Trump supporters with a blissful quality. Dial it way back. This thread, (actually, several related threads) are angry enough without personal insults. Stop. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/177 "2018-06-22T05:09:23Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > And how many military bases have been closed that are still sitting there complete with housing, barracks, chow halls and fences? Plunk the families in housing, fill the commisairy with raw materials to be drawn by ‘rations in kind’ to be cooked at home, or the families can eat in the chow hall. Most of them also have buildings that can be purposed into classsrooms and babysitting areas, and have medical facilities to cre for the health needs. > Not rocket science, people. Is it your impression that closed military bases are sitting there completely un-utilized but well-maintained? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/178 "2018-06-22T06:02:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’m really not sure what you are asking. > > And to be clear I am not saying our immigration policy was perfect under Obama. It wasn’t but it seems to be an intractable problem for our politicians. > > And I support detaining people in certain circumstances. Like if they are a felon. > > I do not support criminally prosecuting **every** illegal immigrant they catch and I absolutely oppose separating children from their parents without a compelling reason. Walking across the border is not a compelling reason. It seems that we are making progress and arguing about the wrong thing. You concede that you would not support this policy even without the situation with the children. So why are we wasting time arguing about the children? Shouldn’t we be arguing about whether there should be detentions at all? Further, I think it is abhorrent to suggest that someone can cross our border illegally and we do not detain them. If I did that in Canada, I would certainly be detained. Why is the United States the only country on earth not permitted to secure its own border? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/179 "2018-06-22T06:18:56Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It seems that we are making progress and arguing about the wrong thing. You concede that you would not support this policy even without the situation with the children. So why are we wasting time arguing about the children? Shouldn’t we be arguing about whether there should be detentions at all? > > Further, I think it is abhorrent to suggest that someone can cross our border illegally and we do not detain them. If I did that in Canada, I would certainly be detained. Why is the United States the only country on earth not permitted to secure its own border? As noted before, we do detain them. The problem was first the clear underfunding that took place when dealing with the asylum seekers. Now a second factor was added with a change in policy that it is also underfunded. Instead of a wall more funding to identify the ones that do deserve asylum is what is needed. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2018, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476/180 "2018-06-22T08:36:28Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Further, I think it is abhorrent to suggest that someone can cross our border illegally and we do not detain them. If I did that in Canada, I would certainly be detained. Of course you would be detained, at least briefly. The issue that we are addressing is that persons arriving on our southern border, whether they’re arriving 100% legally, or whether they’ve crossed into the U.S. in between ports of entry and then turned themselves in (a misdemeanor, but hardly a big deal), or whether they’re trying to get into the interior unnoticed - all of these people are being detained _indefinitely_. Do you have a cite to the effect that Canada carries out similar policies, or are you trying to equate two very different things in the hope that it’ll slip by? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impact-of-trumps-executive-order-to-stop-splitting-up-families/816476.md?page=10)