# Impeach Roland Burris **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 14, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870 "2009-02-14T21:54:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/81 "2009-02-18T00:03:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This whole thing is a joke. He should never have been seated in the first place. Whether the Democrats just wanted that 59th vote or chickened out on the idea of expelling someone, I don’t know, but it was idiotic and underscores how badly their congressional leadership sucks. Most parties feel that [Powell v McCormack](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powell_v._McCormack) means that the Senate really had no right to not seat him. Now that he’s been seated, of course, there’s nothing preventing them from starting expulsion procedures, but as others have pointed out, that takes time, and time spent on it is time not spent on pushing forward their legislative agenda. Hopefully Illinois can quickly pull together a special election to fill the seat. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/82 "2009-02-18T00:46:00Z")
Some of us tried to sound the warning by bringing up his appalling conduct in the Rolando Cruz case (trying to get an innocent man put to death, even though there was much about the case that stunk to high heaven and deserved careful consideration). But would anyone listen? Noooooo. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/83 "2009-02-18T01:09:12Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Most parties feel that [Powell v McCormack](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powell_v._McCormack) means that the Senate really had no right to not seat him. Now that he’s been seated, of course, there’s nothing preventing them from starting expulsion procedures, but as others have pointed out, that takes time, and time spent on it is time not spent on pushing forward their legislative agenda. You’re right that I abbreviated too much: if forced to seat him, they should have removed him immediately. It’s a shame they got too busy with the resoundingly successful PR battle over the stimulus, where they got their asses handed to them repeatedly. Wish they’d had the time to deal with Burris’ obvious lying and potential bribery. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/84 "2009-02-18T01:30:15Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Most parties feel that [Powell v McCormack](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powell_v._McCormack) means that the Senate really had no right to not seat him. I wasn’t one of those people, and this fiasco vindicates my reasoning–once Blagojevich corrupted the process, _any_ appointment by him was tainted. It was like an election in which half of the voting machines malfunctioned. To really appreciate Burris’s dishonesty, you have to read his **sworn affidavit** to the Illinois House Committee on January 5: > [@](#): > > 1. Prior to the December 26, 2008 telephone call from Mr. Adams, Jr., there was not any contact between myself or any of my representatives with Governor Blagojevich or any of his representatives regarding my appointment to the United States Senate. This wasn’t an off-the-cuff response to a question; this was his carefully considered, sworn statement on the most important matter relating to his appointment. It was a willful, knowing lie. It was an act of perjury. It was a felony. I am so fucking sick of this shit. When you swear an affidavit, telling the truth isn’t an option. It isn’t a suggestion. It’s the **fucking law**. Burris should never have been seated, he should now be expelled, and he should be prosecuted and convicted and sent up for hard time in the Big House. Let him carve _that_ on his fucking mausoleum. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/85 "2009-02-18T01:48:19Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Most parties feel that [Powell v McCormack](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powell_v._McCormack) means that the Senate really had no right to not seat him. Now that he’s been seated, of course, there’s nothing preventing them from starting expulsion procedures, but as others have pointed out, that takes time, and time spent on it is time not spent on pushing forward their legislative agenda. For the eleventh time, Powell v. McCormack _doesn’t apply_. (Irritation not directed at you.) Burris’ now-evident corruption wasn’t really the issue; the problem was that Blago’s problems irretrievably corrupted the appointment process, such that no nominee of his could be trusted. > [@Billdo](#): > > The problem is that even if the Ethics panel works extremely quickly for it, it will be a long while until he’s up for expulsion. For instance, they didn’t even get around to moving for Senator Stevens of Alaska’s expusion after he was convicted. That was because Stevens had many friends in the Senate, and since he was up for reelection, there wasn’t a whole lot of point anyway. Burris has not made contacts in the Senate that would be willing to help him much, and he won’t be up until the end of next year, assuming that he survived the primary. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/86 "2009-02-18T02:21:58Z")
I’m not sure if I’ve found my brain or not, but I’ve returned after mulling this over some more to state that it is entirely the fault of my party that Burris was ever seated in the first place. Despite the occasional attempt to attribute his seating to the failure of the Republicans to raise hell about it, his seating was entirely, completely, and unequivocally a failure of the Democrats. Had the Democratic leadership of the Senate steadfastedly refused to seat him, he’d have gone to court. So what, let him. Burris is not giving out this information out of the goodness of his heart; there is something about to come out of somewhere that will kick his ass. Keep in mind, what he is saying is the _positive_ spin for him. And the thing is, WE KNEW THIS. We knew that any appointment by Blagojevich was tainted, was skeevy. Harry Reid knew this, everybody in the Senate knew this, I knew this, you knew this, the wino on the corner knew this. And none of the Senate leadership had the guts to stand up and put their votes where their mouth was. I’m more than disappointed in the Senators of my party, and yes, frankly - though to a lesser extent, of yours too. I’m disgusted and I’m incensed. Every single one of the members of the U.S. Senate has failed us all. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/87 "2009-02-18T02:44:27Z")
Yep. Any bullshit about how Republicans failed to object to him strong enough is the horsiest of horseshit. It’s OUR fault. I’m a True Blue Bleeding Heart Liberal Democrat, but I’m so mad at the Democrats in Congress right now. They dropped the ball with Burris. Oh and fuck you too Bobby Rush, for playing the race card. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/88 "2009-02-18T03:03:32Z")
Well I don’t know about you, but I plan on writing letters to Dianne Feinstein and Barbara Boxer to make my feelings known. FYI for anyone writing to their representatives, use their District Office address. If you send it to their DC office, it will take more than 2 months for them to receive it because it has to go through anthrax screening. ETA: Scrolling up to see where you guys are located, and I’m wondering why I never noticed that you live in Creve Coeur, **Frank**. I grew up in St. Louis, mostly in Chesterfield, but my last place of residence there was in Maryland Heights, overlooking Creve Coeur Lake. Small world. ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/89 "2009-02-18T03:13:46Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Burris is not giving out this information out of the goodness of his heart; there is something about to come out of somewhere that will kick his ass. Keep in mind, what he is saying is the _positive_ spin for him. _Exactly_. When Burris came out a few days ago to amend his story, my first thought was the Feds have something on tape, and Burris knows it, and soon a grand jury will know it. Then, when Blago goes to trial, we’ll all know it. Or, Blago’s getting ready to take everyone down with him and Burris is trying to preempt the upcoming maelstrom. This option has a higher entertainment value. Cry havoc and let slip Patrick Fitzgerald. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/90 "2009-02-18T04:55:15Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > And the thing is, WE KNEW THIS. We knew that any appointment by Blagojevich was tainted, was skeevy. Harry Reid knew this, everybody in the Senate knew this, I knew this, you knew this, the wino on the corner knew this. And none of the Senate leadership had the guts to stand up and put their votes where their mouth was. I have to disagree. Burris was a brilliant choice by Blagojevich, and – based on what was known at the time, including Burris’s sworn testimony – there was no real principled reason that the Democratic Senators (or the Republicans for that matter) could have kept him out. Yes, Blago was tainted by the criminal accusations, though he was only charged (not even indicted). At that point he had neither been criminally convicted nor impeached, and the Illinois legislature was moving relatively slowly to do anything about the situation. It was unquestioned that Blago was the sitting governor and had the legal authority to make the appointment. Further, as a former state Attorney General who was generally thought of as honest (if not the most competent), he was certainly a credible appointee. The race issue was just icing on the cake, but I don’t think it really mattered in the end. If Reid & Co. tried to prevent him from being seated, there would have undoubtedly been a court fight, and Burris would probably have won. At the very least, it would have kept the issue in the news for months, and deprived the Senate of a Democratic vote (with a very pissed off Senator if he were in fact seated). Quite simply, Blago outfoxed the Senate in making the appointment, and once the appointment was made there was nothing the Senate could do without evidence that _Burris_ himself was tainted. Had today’s news that Burris had tried (but not succeeded) to fundraise for Blago come out before he was seated, and probably the news about his talking to Blago’s brother, he would have been a goner. But at the time, he seemed like a clean appointee, who despite having been appointed by a slime, didn’t seem to be a slime himself. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/91 "2009-02-18T05:01:05Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > I have to disagree. Burris was a brilliant choice by Blagojevich, and – based on what was known at the time, including Burris’s sworn testimony – there was no real principled reason that the Democratic Senators (or the Republicans for that matter) could have kept him out. Yes, no reason except _the tiniest fucking modicum of common sense_. Anyone with the intelligence greater than or equal to a bread mold should have known this was coming. Blagojevich swore repeatedly he would never give this Senate seat away! Who the fuck could be “outfoxed” by his insistence he was actually giving it away and didn’t ask for anything in return? It was the most obvious lie imaginable. This was a fuckup, pure and simple. Maybe it wasn’t worth Reid’s time and was not a priority, but he got it wrong and the Democrats got it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/92 "2009-02-18T16:30:54Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > To really appreciate Burris’s dishonesty, you have to read his **sworn affidavit** to the Illinois House Committee on January 5: Q: Did anyone from the Governor’s camp ever ask you anything about money? A: No. No. No, no, no. … Yes. Yes. Yes…a bit. A bit. [/Monty Python] ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/93 "2009-02-18T17:42:40Z")
Sometime during the last 8 years, Harry Reid got used to bending over and spreading 'em for President Bush. I think his joints have fused in that position. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/94 "2009-02-18T17:52:17Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Sometime during the last 8 years, Harry Reid got used to bending over and spreading 'em for President Bush. I think his joints have fused in that position. Brain Bleach! Stat! ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/95 "2009-02-18T20:20:59Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > there was no real principled reason that the Democratic Senators (or the Republicans for that matter) could have kept him out. “A man who believes that he can accept an appointment from a man so tainted, and not himself be tainted, is a man so lacking in judgment and common sense that he cannot be trusted with this seat.” The end. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/96 "2009-02-18T21:29:52Z")
Too bad about that “law” crap, huh? Sure gets in the way of Justice at times, don’t it? ---
**Author:** ![padabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@padabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/padabe)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/97 "2009-02-18T23:08:31Z")
**Frank** , you’re certainly on the right track, but I think the buck should stop with the Illinois democrats. There is no outrage here anymore. How can Reid be expected to pitch a fit over a Senate appointment if the voters back home can’t be bothered give the issue more than a “meh”? There was no pressing reason for Reid to spend the time or the political capital. This was always Illinois’ mess. Although it reflects badly on democrats in general, a lot of eyebrows would have been raised if Reid had put his foot down. Tangentially related four-week old newspaper column [here](http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/hottype/090122/). (warning: despicably liberal pinko commie rag! ;)) > [@](#): > > Roland Burris has become Illinois’ new junior senator, I believe, not because there was no legal way for Senate Democrats to deny his appointment but because they saw nothing—beyond some snarky letters to the editor and blog posts—to indicate that the good people of his home state cared if he was seated. Nobody organized against Burris. Nobody even screamed. A feeling of powerlessness has become such second nature in this state that the public watched the Burris comedy play out without caring—or perhaps even noticing—how offensive it was. The only mau-mauing was done by congressman Bobby Rush—on Burris’s behalf. If the people of Illinois shrug off Burris’s appointment as more of the same old same old, why shouldn’t the Senate roll over? ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/98 "2009-02-18T23:34:14Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > For the eleventh time, Powell v. McCormack _doesn’t apply_. (Irritation not directed at you.) My apologies for not seeing the other ten. Could you explain (or link to an explanation on) why it doesn’t apply? My thought was that > [@](#): > > 107 Further, analysis of the ‘textual commitment’ under Art. I, § 5 (see Part VI, B (1)), has demonstrated that in judging the qualifications of its members Congress is limited to the standing qualifications prescribed in the Constitution. (From [EnFacto.com is for sale | HugeDomains](http://www.enfacto.com/case/U.S./395/486/)) meant, since the Constitution does not expressly forbid douchebags from holding office, and since Illinois state law grants governors the right to appoint replacement congresscritters without specifying exceptions for governors under indictment, that the Senate could have prolonged the agony, but would have eventually been forced to seat Burris. As to the argument over whether the Senate should have immediately started expulsion proceedings after seating him, I agree with Marley23. Instead, Reid basically caved, with the small condition that Burris explain what happened under oath prior to being seated. Now that Burris had admitted to screwing that up, the Senate Ethics Committee needs to speak soon and speak forcibly. I’m not holding my breath, though. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/99 "2009-02-19T00:57:29Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > My apologies for not seeing the other ten. Could you explain (or link to an explanation on) why it doesn’t apply? My thought was that > > (From [EnFacto.com is for sale | HugeDomains](http://www.enfacto.com/case/U.S./395/486/)) > > meant, since the Constitution does not expressly forbid douchebags from holding office, and since Illinois state law grants governors the right to appoint replacement congresscritters without specifying exceptions for governors under indictment, that the Senate could have prolonged the agony, but would have eventually been forced to seat Burris. In Powell v. McCormack, the House acknowledged that Powell had been rightfully elected, but wanted to keep him out because he was corrupt. The problem with Burris is the other way around: he personally wasn’t all _that_ objectionable, but the appointment process was tainted. Since nobody had the balls to press it, obviously the point is kind of irrelevant now. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870/100 "2009-02-19T01:25:29Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > In Powell v. McCormack, the House acknowledged that Powell had been rightfully elected, but wanted to keep him out because he was corrupt. The problem with Burris is the other way around: he personally wasn’t all _that_ objectionable, but the appointment process was tainted. Since nobody had the balls to press it, obviously the point is kind of irrelevant now. It doesn’t matter that the reason isn’t the same. All that matters is that the reason is not specifically enumerated in the Constitution. That’s what the part I quoted states. Individuals deemed detrimental to the legislature for other reasons can still be forced out, but they must first be seated and then expelled by a 2/3 vote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-roland-burris/485870.md?page=6)