# Impeach Trump. Now.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [February 20, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327 "2017-02-20T16:47:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/1 "2017-02-20T16:47:01Z")
Yes, I know: it’s a political impossibility. But dammit, that’s what Dems should demand of the GOP: put country and our alliances ahead of party, and impeach and remove Trump before he gives away a good chunk of Ukraine, or sends the EU on the road to breakup, or lets Putin grab a Baltic or three.
Because by the time he actually does any of this, it’ll be too late to stop him.
The latest news coming out that [solidly connects his development deals with his Russian ties](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-big-shoe-just-dropped), combined with [Trump’s attempts to destabilize the EU](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-american-experiment-in-exile), represent risks that are too great to even leave the door open to.
It’s the old likelihood\*consequences formula: even if the chance that Trump will do these things is small, it’s real, and the consequences would be devastating.
That’s why he needs to go. Whatever Pence’s many shortcomings may be, he is a friend and supporter of our European allies, and can be trusted to put their interests ahead of Russia’s.
So even though Trump has been in office a shade less than a month as I write this, it’s not too soon to not just talk about, but demand, impeachment and removal from office. At the Republicans’ earliest convenience.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/2 "2017-02-20T16:54:56Z")
Something about pie in the sky comes to mind. The day that Pubbies put country over party will be the day Hell freezes over.
And I don’t care if the Eagles got back together for one more album. Pubbies’ music was never that good.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/3 "2017-02-20T17:00:21Z")
You’re proposing to impeach him for things he hasn’t done yet, and that you say is very unlikely that he actually will do? As I’m sure you know, Nancy Pelosi has said impeachment is off the table. Not that the Dems, being the minority party, could do it even if they wanted to.
No, let’s wait until some “high crimes and misdemeanors” are actually done before we pull the impeachment lever.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/4 "2017-02-20T17:07:30Z")
I’m not sure that implying that Republicans are putting their own partisan interests before the country’s, and then asking them for help in impeaching the leader of their party, is a path that’s likely to lead to success. Maybe next time try not to insult the people who’s help you’re asking for.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/5 "2017-02-20T17:09:28Z")
Here’s a high crime for you:
Whereas, [17 intelligence agencies](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/10/21/17-intelligence-agencies-russia-behind-hacking/92514592/) of the United States agree that Russia hacked the DNC in order to interfere with free and fair US elections; and
Whereas, in response, the US placed [sanctions](http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-russia-sanctions-election-interference-2016/) on Russian intelligence agencies and agents to deter this kind of interference with US democracy; and
Whereas, Donald Trump had personally [encouraged](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-clinton-emails.html) this hacking of a U.S. political party; and
Whereas, Donald Trump’s campaign [informed](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/flynn-is-said-to-have-talked-to-russians-about-sanctions-before-trump-took-office.html) Russia with respect to those sanctions that relations with Russia would be much better once Trump was inaugurated, leaving the impression that sanctions relief would be forthcoming; and
Whereas, Donald Trump has repeatedly [lied](http://www.vox.com/world/2017/2/16/14640622/trump-russia-campaign-press-conference-lies) about his campaign’s contacts with Russian agents.
It therefore appears that Donald Trump encouraged and protected Russia’s effort to influence Donald Trump’s election as President of the United States and is, to this day, still lying about these contacts. He should be impeached for these acts.
* * *
Is that so unreasonable?
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/6 "2017-02-20T17:10:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> I’m not sure that implying that **Republicans are putting their own partisan interests before the country’s,** and then asking them for help in impeaching the leader of their party, is a path that’s likely to lead to success. Maybe next time try not to insult the people who’s help you’re asking for.
The truth fucking hurts, doesn’t it?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/7 "2017-02-20T17:16:08Z")
**Richard** :
The comments Trump made during the debate can easily dismissed as a tactless joke. And there is disconnect in that the discussion with Russia about sanctions was not from Trump, but from Flynn. And, per the link:
> [@](#):
>
> The officials said that Mr. Flynn had never made explicit promises of sanctions relief, but that he had appeared to leave the impression it would be possible.
“Appeared to leave the impression”. That’s pretty weak sauce, especially since we’re talking about Flynn, not Trump.
It looks like the Republicans (per Graham) are serous about investigating this whole Russia thing. Let’s see what the investigation turns up before we pull the impeachment trigger.
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/8 "2017-02-20T17:18:26Z")
Several replying early are ignoring that the OP also thinks that impeachment is a political impossibility now, but this can change in a New York minute. Currently investigations should be demanded, and there are a few starting, but IMHO there needs to be also an independent one.
It took 4 years for supporters to figure out that Nixon was indeed a crook. And I also posted that I expected something like that to happen until then and Trump to be impeached too.
Seems that I could be wrong and it might take 4 months…
But to keep it short and understandable, Trump has lied to the American people about Russia, even on his not political dealings:
> **[Elon Musk Is An Ultra-Trumper - Digby's Hullabaloo](https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2017/02/hes-liar.html)**
>
> A cold, self-centered monster This just makes me sad --- and mad. How could anyone treat their own child this way? Vivian Jenna Wilson, the transgender daughter of Elon Musk, said Thursday in her first interview that he was an absent father who was...
David Letterman Show appearance in October 2013:
> [@](#):
>
> Letterman: Have you had any dealings with the Russians?
>
> Trump: I’ve done a lot of business with the Russians. I know the Russians very well
Meaning that it is very likely that Trump does owe a lot to the Russians and his dealings with Russia should at least be investigated **thoroughly**.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/9 "2017-02-20T17:22:10Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> **Richard** :
>
> The comments Trump made during the debate can easily dismissed as a tactless joke. And there is disconnect in that the discussion with Russia about sanctions was not from Trump, but from Flynn. And, per the link:
>
> “Appeared to leave the impression”. That’s pretty weak sauce, especially since we’re talking about Flynn, not Trump.
Two things:
(1) Yes, the evidence is thin. In a normal world, we’d get an investigation. But the GOP isn’t going to do that. So we must all draw whatever conclusions we can from the very limited evidence. Since impeachment is politically impossible now, I think the question is what the Dems should be demanding and what their rhetoric should be.
(2) It is not at all unreasonable to infer that: that Trump was not joking; that Flynn made those contacts with the knowledge of Trump; and that Flynn’s attempt to leave that impression was as specific as he thought he was safe to do. There’s lots of circumstantial evidence to back all of those inference, even if they are indeed inferences that might or might not be correct.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/10 "2017-02-20T17:25:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> It looks like the Republicans (per Graham) are serous about investigating this whole Russia thing. Let’s see what the investigation turns up before we pull the impeachment trigger.
They have not said that they are going to investigate the things we want investigated. They have kept it extremely general, and I think it entirely unwarranted to infer that the plan is to investigate Trump or his associates.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/11 "2017-02-20T17:26:45Z")
We’re not at the impeachment point yet. But Congress should convene hearings on the issue of Russian interference in the election and what knowledge Trump and his staff had of it. And President Trump should have to testify under oath.
I’m not trying to set a trap for the man. But we need to cut through the evasion.
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### Author:  [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/12 "2017-02-20T17:35:31Z")
Unfortunately, I don’t think impeachment happens unless it’s clear to the majority of Republicans that the consequences of a Trump presidency include either real or electoral disaster, and I fear that the real disaster will actually have to _happen_ before the right people are willing to believe in it.
I’m hoping for the combination of steadily falling poll numbers plus an unexpected Democratic upset in at least one of the [five special elections](https://ballotpedia.org/Special_elections_to_the_115th_United_States_Congress_(2017-2018)) that will be held this year for what would ordinarily be safe Republican seats. Otherwise, I don’t see how we get out of this without things going genuinely, catastrophically wrong.
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### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/13 "2017-02-20T17:38:41Z")
The Republicans don’t want to kill the Goose that laid the Golden Egg. Do you think DJT will be pleased with the GOP if they start impeachment proceedings? If I were a Democratic Congressman when the GOP turns against their Man, I would sit quietly and let the GOP be “hoist with their own petard.”
What is far more likely is for a deal to be worked out where DJT resigns amicably. Assuming his effective net worth increases by a few billion dollars — as seems almost certain considering how hard he’s playing for that — I think Trump might be happy to find an excuse to quit.
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### Author:  [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/14 "2017-02-20T17:41:30Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> You’re proposing to impeach him for things he hasn’t done yet, and that you say is very unlikely that he actually will do? As I’m sure you know, Nancy Pelosi has said impeachment is off the table. Not that the Dems, being the minority party, could do it even if they wanted to.
>
> No, let’s wait until some “high crimes and misdemeanors” are actually done before we pull the impeachment lever.
I came here to say the same thing. I’d be thrilled to see him impeached, but only after he’s done something to warrant. Misusing the impeachment process is not going to help this place get back to normal. Without something solid to point to, his base will be even more radicalized.
Just wait until something real comes along. I’m fairly sure it will.
Then it will get interesting to see how the Republicans react.
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### Author:  [@Blinkyandpinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blinkyandpinky)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/15 "2017-02-20T17:42:22Z")
Where’s the “great debate” here?
Trump will be POTUS for 8 glorious years, and the wishful thinking of a few angry people on the internet will not change that.
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/16 "2017-02-20T17:44:39Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#):
>
> (1) Yes, the evidence is thin. In a normal world, we’d get an investigation. But the GOP isn’t going to do that.
[https://www.burr.senate.gov/press/releases/joint-statement-on-committee-inquiry-into-russian-intelligence-activities](https://www.burr.senate.gov/press/releases/joint-statement-on-committee-inquiry-into-russian-intelligence-activities)
What is wrong with this investigation? Of course, I’m not sure if, at some point in the future, Republicans might pull their punches in the investigation, but as of this moment, it has bipartisan support.
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/17 "2017-02-20T17:46:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> **Richard** :
>
> “Appeared to leave the impression”. That’s pretty weak sauce, especially since we’re talking about Flynn, not Trump.
Assuming for purposes of argument that Trump himself told the Russians that once he takes office, the sanctions are gone, how is that an impeachable offense?
Doesn’t any new President have the power to change foreign policy? And it cannot possibly be a quid pro quo as Trump was on record as being relatively supportive of Russia prior to any of the DNC email flap.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/18 "2017-02-20T17:46:42Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> You’re proposing to impeach him for things he hasn’t done yet, and that you say is very unlikely that he actually will do?
Well, we _could_ just wait and see, and afterwards, wring our hands about our Constitutional system not leaving us any options.
Seriously, we’ve never been in this sort of place before. Got any better answers?
> [@](#):
>
> As I’m sure you know, Nancy Pelosi has said impeachment is off the table.
I remember her saying that back in 2006, but we’re not talking about retroactively impeaching Bush and Cheney. I wasn’t aware that she’d even been asked that question about Trump.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/19 "2017-02-20T17:48:08Z")
> [@septimus](#):
>
> What is far more likely is for a deal to be worked out where DJT resigns amicably. Assuming his effective net worth increases by a few billion dollars — as seems almost certain considering how hard he’s playing for that — I think Trump might be happy to find an excuse to quit.
I gave up making predictions after Trump won, but back before that, I was pretty certain that if he did win, he wouldn’t even last a year. With the caveat that I think predictions wrt Trump are fraught with problems, it would not surprise me in the least if something like this happened. I can’t for the life of me believe that he really wants to be the president. That is, do the day-to-day things that a president has to do. And take all the shit that every president gets as part of the job. Ego fragile. Sad!!
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/20 "2017-02-20T17:48:52Z")
> [@Ravenman](#):
>
> What is wrong with this investigation?
It doesn’t involve investigating Trump or his associates. Based on what they’ve said, it could be entirely focused on the Russian side and what led U.S. intel to reach the conclusions it did.
A normal investigation would look at the questions raised [here](http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/20/14625788/trump-russia-putin-manafort-page-stone). I see no indication that they will be addressing any of that.
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