# Impeach Trump. Now. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327 "2017-02-20T16:47:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/221 "2017-05-15T18:22:34Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Laurence Henry “Larry” Tribe is a professor of constitutional law at Harvard Law School and the Carl M. Loeb University Professor at Harvard University. He also works with the firm Massey & Gail LLP on a variety of matters. Tribe is a scholar of constitutional law and co-founder of American Constitution Society. He is the author of _American Constitutional Law_ (1978), a major treatise in that field, and has argued before the United States Supreme Court 36 times. > > And he makes the case in a Washington Post opinion piece that [Trump must be impeached](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-must-be-impeached-heres-why/2017/05/13/82ce2ea4-374d-11e7-b4ee-434b6d506b37_story.html?). > > Tribe is not naive to the political will needed for this.Even though Tribe has said that impeachment should be an option for Trump, the termination of Comey moved him from saying it’s something that could be done to something that _should_ be done. > > Sadly if it takes getting House Republicans to make a “serious commitment to constitutional principle, and courageous willingness to put devotion to the national interest above self-interest and party loyalty,” I think it will take they losing seats in droves (or having it look like they will) in the midterms for them to even consider this option. Laurence Tribe is the big swinging dick con law professor at Harvard Law School. He is often considered one of the best constitutional lawyers in the country and he is liberal as hell. Here is the Wiki for the American Constitution Society you mention him starting. > **[American Constitution Society](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Constitution_Society)** > > The American Constitution Society (ACS) is a progressive legal organization. ACS was created as a counterweight to, and is modeled after, the Federalist Society, and is often described as its progressive counterpart. > ACS hosts conferences, sponsors chapters of law students and practicing attorneys, engages in education projects, and advocates for progressive judicial nominations. > Founded in 2001 following the U.S. Supreme Court decision Bush v. Gore, ACS is headquartered in Washington, D.C. ... Not saying that this undermines his opinion but he is not presenting a neutral opinion because he is not a neutral person. He is certainly not presenting a LEGAL opinion to a political question. There is a reason impeachments are tried in the senate and not in courts. They are a political question, not a legal one. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/222 "2017-05-15T18:23:23Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, they certainly count as evidence. > > Congratulations, you have proven pretty conclusively that Trump is accused of firing the FBI director, and he clearly did do so. Keep on moving those goalposts. Let’s cut to the chase: The fact is that Republicans in the House are snively cowards who will never, even have enough “evidence” to push for even as much as an independent investigation into much of what Trump has been accused of doing (thereby making those goalposts of yours unimaginably far away), let alone have the courage to actually vote on impeachment. Honestly, those who make claims of wanting “evidence” come off a nothing but high-tech concern trolling as far as I’m concerned when the whole point is that the same people who needed eight separate investigations into Benghazi are scared shitless of actually investigating even one time anything Trump is alleged to have done. Trump fired the guy who was investigating him. And said that’s actually what he did. These are actual facts in play here, direct quotes, not innuendo. And your response is to move goalposts. Gee, aren’t you clever. Fortunately for you the craven cowards that make up the Republican-led congress will do their best to make sure that the evidence that would please you is never found unless some new Woodward & Bernstein come along… Even then he’ll just say they’re “fake news” and that will be the end of it. Your side puts party before country thanks to intellectually dishonest shills who support them and make excuses for them and vote for them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/223 "2017-05-15T18:25:38Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I disagree that it is well-sourced. The fact that Liberal Groups A, B, and C filed lawsuits is not evidence of anything. > > Besides, it’s a literary and cultural COMMENTARY magazine. By definition, that’s opinion. And you are perfectly free to correct any mistakes in fact made in that article…if you can. Merely saying “It’s an article!” doesn’t mean jack if that’s all you’ve got. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/224 "2017-05-15T18:25:42Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I disagree that it is well-sourced. The fact that Liberal Groups A, B, and C filed lawsuits is not evidence of anything. > > Besides, it’s a literary and cultural COMMENTARY magazine. By definition, that’s opinion. I see. So even if they cite facts, that makes it ok to disregard them. 😉 Got it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/225 "2017-05-15T18:26:14Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Laurence Tribe is the big swinging dick con law professor at Harvard Law School. He is often considered one of the best constitutional lawyers in the country and he is liberal as hell. Here is the Wiki for the American Constitution Society you mention him starting. > > [American Constitution Society - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Constitution_Society) > > Not saying that this undermines his opinion but he is not presenting a neutral opinion because he is not a neutral person. He is certainly not presenting a LEGAL opinion to a political question. There is a reason impeachments are tried in the senate and not in courts. They are a political question, not a legal one. The man is liberal, of that I have no doubt. Being biased is fine if one makes an argument on the facts that support his position. He does that, pointing out specifically where Trump went from someone who could be impeached to someone who should and said what he went afoul of that caused this shift. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/226 "2017-05-15T18:26:47Z")
> [@](#): > > a number of Senate Democrats have introduced legislation that would force Trump to divest or face impeachment. Meaningless, and not evidence of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/227 "2017-05-15T18:28:29Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > Keep on moving those goalposts. Now to be fair, we can’t accuse someone of “moving the goalposts” if he never shows us where they are in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/228 "2017-05-15T18:29:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So if they wanted to cut their losses on this immoral Forrest Gump clone right now, they would legally have enough to do so, correct? WTF did Forrest Gump ever do to YOU? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/229 "2017-05-15T18:33:54Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > The man is liberal, of that I have no doubt. Being biased is fine if one makes an argument on the facts that support his position. He does that, pointing out specifically where Trump went from someone who could be impeached to someone who should and said what he went afoul of that caused this shift. And I think its an argument that plays well to the choir. As long as Trump is nominating conservative justices, the Republicans won’t impeach him without that stuff that Tribe imagines MIGHT be revealed by the investigations. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/230 "2017-05-15T18:33:58Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Meaningless, and not evidence of anything. Remember what the definition of “high crimes and misdemeanors” is? Anything Congress wants it to be, period. You can’t say “This doesn’t count” or “That isn’t enough evident for that” under that definition. BTW, I am asking you the same question that **Shodan** refuses to answer: What specifically _would_ count as “high crimes and misdemeanors” in your opinion? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/231 "2017-05-15T18:42:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Remember what the definition of “high crimes and misdemeanors” is? > Anything Congress wants it to be, period. You can’t say “This doesn’t count” or “That isn’t enough evident for that” under that definition. > BTW, I am asking you the same question that **Shodan** refuses to answer: What specifically _would_ count as “high crimes and misdemeanors” in your opinion? Evidence. “The ACLU is looking for a case” and “a number of Democrats have introduced legislation” may very well be factual statements, in and of themselves, but those statements prove nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/232 "2017-05-15T18:48:33Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Evidence. > > “The ACLU is looking for a case” and “a number of Democrats have introduced legislation” may very well be factual statements, in and of themselves, but those statements prove nothing. Try being original- **Shodan** already gave this vague non-answer. Evidence of _what_, specifically? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/233 "2017-05-15T19:43:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > OK, then let’s see your evidence. Especially your evidence for #3. [Firing James Comey to impede an investigation isn’t smoke. It’s fire.](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/15/15627284/trump-comey-firing-obstruction-justice-nixon-watergate) > [@](#): > > But this is not a “where there’s smoke there’s fire” situation. We don’t need to know much more to know that the president has committed conduct that was once thought sufficient to warrant removal from office. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/234 "2017-05-15T19:50:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Try being original- **Shodan** already gave this vague non-answer. > Evidence of _what_, specifically? Evidence of wrong-doing on the part of the President. An article in The Atlantic or on Vox is no such thing. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/235 "2017-05-15T19:55:21Z")
Impeachment will never happen as long as the Trumpanzees remain in denial and blame everything bad on a corrupt media. Even Paul Ryan, who presumably has a functioning brain, is afraid to march out of step. You need to hope for something like a meltdown on the world stage or perhaps a medical emergency requiring the only doctor available, a lesbian-black-Muslim-female-immigrant doctor, to treat him. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/236 "2017-05-15T19:56:45Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Evidence of wrong-doing on the part of the President. > > An article in The Atlantic or on Vox is no such thing. Firing the lead investigator _because he’s investigating your actions_ is enough to warrant impeachment, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/237 "2017-05-15T20:00:59Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Evidence of wrong-doing on the part of the President. > > An article in The Atlantic or on Vox is no such thing. So any wrong-doing at all qualifies? Thank you for answering my question as to what would constitute sufficient “high crimes and misdemeanors” in your book. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/238 "2017-05-15T20:18:50Z")
Firing the investigator is obstruction of justice. Obstruction of justice is grounds for impeachment. Whether or not the GOP chooses to impeach is quite another matter. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/239 "2017-05-15T20:22:13Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Firing the lead investigator _because he’s investigating your actions_ is enough to warrant impeachment, IMHO. Yes, shockingly, in your opinion. But as you can see, not in Congress’ opinion. So I propose the following standard: even though legally, Congress may impeach for any thing they please, why don’t we assume for the purposes of discussion that Congress will only be motivated by a “high crime and misdemeanor” that is actually a violation of the criminal code. Further let’s assume that Congress will impeach just like a grand jury indicts: only on a showing of probable cause. Neither of those are literal limits on Congress, but I argue that they are practical, real-life limits that Congress in real life will observe. Congress son’t impeach unless there is probable cause of an actual crime. With those limits in mind, what is your answer? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/240 "2017-05-15T20:23:13Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Firing the investigator is obstruction of justice. > > Obstruction of justice is grounds for impeachment. > > Whether or not the GOP chooses to impeach is quite another matter. Do you mean generically, or as a matter of federal criminal law? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327.md?page=13)