# Impeach Trump. Now. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327 "2017-02-20T16:47:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/381 "2017-05-16T23:17:39Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > $2 billion is an insignificant trade amount. > > Canada-U.S. trade is nearly $600 billion. So is China - U.S. > > Russia is way, way down the list of U.S. trade partners, after Chile and Spain. [List of the largest trading partners of the United States - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_the_United_States) For one, you’re comparing annual with monthly. For two, it’s not “insignificant” in terms of determining an enemy. How much trade did the US have with Germany and Japan during WWII? You can round your answer off to the nearest zero. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/382 "2017-05-16T23:25:21Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > $2 billion is an insignificant trade amount. > > Canada-U.S. trade is nearly $600 billion. So is China - U.S. > > Russia is way, way down the list of U.S. trade partners, after Chile and Spain. [List of the largest trading partners of the United States - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_the_United_States) Not only that but we have had [sanctions against Russia](https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/ukrainerussia/) for some time now. How many allies do we have sanctions against? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/383 "2017-05-16T23:48:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Which treason case in the last, say, 100 years involved a country that most resembles Russia as “the enemy”. Jonathan Pollard got thrown in jail for most of his life for selling US secrets to _allies_. Even if you want to argue that Russia is not the outright enemy of the US, they’re not allies by any stretch of the word. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/384 "2017-05-17T00:55:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > For one, you’re comparing annual with monthly. For two, it’s not “insignificant” in terms of determining an enemy. How much trade did the US have with Germany and Japan during WWII? You can round your answer off to the nearest zero. WWII wasn’t a real war - how many three-masted sailing ships did the U.S. or Germany have in their armadas? How many horses in their cavalry? As I said earlier, “Short of nuclear war, they can’t do that much to us by force of arms. So Putin’s wisely chosen a different battlefield.” You can measure whether there’s a conflict going on by the measures of the last war, but your measurements may fail to inform you in any meaningful way. ---
**Author:** ![ganthet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de0a6/32.png) [@ganthet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ganthet)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/385 "2017-05-17T01:41:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > They’re our enemy, but we [imported almost $1.7B worth of goods](https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c4621.html) from them in March of this year? And exported over half a billion dollars in good to them? > > Nope. Not buying it. > > Which treason case in the last, say, 100 years involved a country that most resembles Russia as “the enemy”. Does a trade balance have to equal zero on both sides before another country could be considered an enemy? And isn’t “adversary” just another word for enemy? Numerous officials, including those currently serving in Trump’s administration, have labeled Russia as an adversary. > [@Congressional testimony from March 2017 by Fmr FBI Director James Comey and NSA Director Admiral Michael Rogers](#): > > REPRESENTATIVE SPEIER: You know, I think it’s really important as we sit here that we explain this to the American people in a way that they can understand it. Why are we talking about all of this? So my first question to each of you is, is Russia our adversary? Mr. Comey? > > [COMEY: Yes.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/03/20/full-transcript-fbi-director-james-comey-testifies-on-russian-interference-in-2016-election/?utm_term=.2410dcbb480c) > > SPEIER: Mr. Rogers? > > ROGERS: Yes. > > SPEIER: Is – do they intend to do us harm? > > ROGERS: They intend to ensure, I believe, that they gain advantage at our expense. > > SPEIER: Director Comey? > > COMEY: Yes, I wanna be – harm can have many meetings. They’re an adversary and so they wanna resist us, oppose us, undermine us, in lots of different ways. > [@Commander of U.S. European Command](#): > > [In the east](http://docs.house.gov/meetings/AS/AS00/20170328/105780/HHRG-115-AS00-Wstate-ScaparrottiC-20170328.pdf), a resurgent Russia has turned from partner to antagonist. Countries along Russia’s periphery, especially Ukraine and Georgia, are under threat from Moscow’s malign influence and military aggression… Moscow intends to reemerge as a global power, and views international norms such as the rule of law, democracy, and human rights as components of a system designed to suppress Russia. Therefore, Russia seeks to undermine this international system and discredit those in the West who have created it. For example, Russia is taking steps to influence the internal politics of European countries, just as it tried to do in the United States, in an attempt to create disunity and weakness within Europe and undermine the transatlantic relationship. > [@Rex Tillerson's testimony to Congress during his confirmation hearing in January 2017](#): > > “We’re not likely to ever be friends,” Tillerson said, adding that the United States and Russia “do not hold the same values.” > > [“At this point, they are in the ‘unfriendly adversary’ category](http://www.gopusa.com/rex-tillerson-russia-is-an-unfriendly-adversary-that-poses-danger/),” Tillerson said. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/386 "2017-05-17T01:54:31Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Jonathan Pollard got thrown in jail for most of his life for selling US secrets to _allies_. Even if you want to argue that Russia is not the outright enemy of the US, they’re not allies by any stretch of the word. That was on a charge of espionage, not treason. Why is it that you guys have to hold on to this magical thinking about treason? Trump is not going to be impeached for treason. Anyone who wants to make that bet, please let me know. I’m in biggly on that. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/387 "2017-05-17T01:54:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Sure. I will do my very best to remember. I have a reminder system. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/388 "2017-05-17T01:55:51Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Jonathan Pollard got thrown in jail for most of his life for selling US secrets to _allies_. Even if you want to argue that Russia is not the outright enemy of the US, they’re not allies by any stretch of the word. Pollard not charged with treason. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/389 "2017-05-17T01:57:56Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > No provision for death or resignation? The terms of the bet mean that death or resignation are a win for me, but I would treat those as a push: no winner. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/390 "2017-05-17T02:20:01Z")
This year Canada has led a permanent NATO battle group to Latvia, and the USA it taking over Canada’s previous station in Poland. Our Minister of Foreign Affairs has been banned from Russia, and we’ve banned some Russians from Canada. The goal is to station NATO troops in Latvia to dissuade Russia from invading Latvia the way it did Ukraine. We hope that through firm and consistent diplomacy, show of Nato determination, and punitive trade sanctions, we can encourage Russia to behave more responsibly internationally. The Great Pussy Grabber is a friend of Russia, and biggly enjoyed being pissed on by Russian prostitutes. I suspect, however, that [Lady Columbia](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b3/bf/32/b3bf322d111d5c31a94c440ae99c2371.jpg) is not a friend of Russia, and does not enjoy being pissed on by Russia. There’s nothing new about there being economic relations to greater or lesser degrees between adversaries, and even combatants. [Allies trading with Hitler – Economic games during World War II](https://harmoniaphilosophica.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/allies-trading-with-hitler-economic-2jszrulazj6wq-22/) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/391 "2017-05-17T02:23:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I certainly will be happy to return to this post at any time in the future. > > The problem is that you’re completely unaccountable. > > When I come back in 2020 and bump this thread, I’ll be accused of gloating, and asked why I don’t get a life, and why it’s so important to rub in being right. > > When I offer to wager on being right, you discover a pious objection to gambling. > > In short, you want the flexibility of tossing out garbage predictions now with zero consequence for error when they don’t come to fruition. > > Isn’t that about right? You have admitted error more than once or twice when future events proved you wrong. Others don’t like it when you point out their error. In fact they will insist it was never error to begin with, what they REALLY meant was something else that is entirely consistent with the facts as they evolved. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/392 "2017-05-17T02:41:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > They’re our enemy, but we [imported almost $1.7B worth of goods](https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c4621.html) from them in March of this year? Didn’t US businesses continue to trade with Nazi Germany right up till 1941? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/393 "2017-05-17T03:57:13Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Didn’t US businesses continue to trade with Nazi Germany right up till 1941? Through subsidiaries it was a lot more than trade and a lot longer than just pre-war. From post 390 > [@Muffin](#): > > There’s nothing new about there being economic relations to greater or lesser degrees between adversaries, and even combatants. [Allies trading with Hitler – Economic games during World War II](https://harmoniaphilosophica.wordpress.com/2011/01/11/allies-trading-with-hitler-economic-2jszrulazj6wq-22/) ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/394 "2017-05-17T04:30:27Z")
A close friend of my wife actually worked for our intelligence community over seas. He would do translations, and actually spy on terrorist groups. He and his family were given US citizenship and moved over here once someone uncovered his working for the US. Trump signed an executive order banning anyone from the country he was in at that time. I spent 5 days with his wife and my father working to get him back over here. His life was in serious danger for 144 hours while he waited to get back in the states because of trumps ridiculous order. He could of fucking died not to mention all the people that DID DIE because they couldnt get into the states at that time. I will not tolerate some wannabe dictator threatening my friends and family because he feels entitled. Trump will be impeached over the russian investigation. He’s already proven he has ties with russia by not releasing his tax returns once becoming president. I will continue to do my very best to fight against him and anyone ignorantly supporting him. For the next 4 years until he’s impeached I wont rest until he’s punished for almost killing my close friend over some stupid ass campaign politics. Trump should not only be impeached but held liable for treason against the united states due to his russian ties. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/395 "2017-05-17T05:06:58Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > He could of fucking died not to mention all the people that DID DIE because they couldnt get into the states at that time. Cite that anyone DIED because they couldn’t get into the United States for a few days? ---
**Author:** ![Barack\_Obama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Barack\_Obama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barack_Obama)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/396 "2017-05-17T05:29:35Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Cite that anyone DIED because they couldn’t get into the United States for a few days? I can’t cite something that wasn’t investigated or made public. How would I go to look at all the countries trump banned and find out whoever got killed because they had to get away. It would good if nobody died but the fact people’s lifes were put into jeapordy. Unless you can disprove my claim then despite what you say I stand by the fact people died because of his idiotic decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/397 "2017-05-17T05:45:00Z")
Since Comey is set to testify Thursday, we basically know that at least a few bombshells are going to come from it. If the media can find a new crisis Wednesday, that’ll be a hell of a lot of momentum come Friday. And they’ve probably got a backlog of angry FBI agents to tap for it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/398 "2017-05-17T08:10:00Z")
> [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > I can’t cite something that wasn’t investigated or made public. How would I go to look at all the countries trump banned and find out whoever got killed because they had to get away. It would good if nobody died but the fact people’s lifes were put into jeapordy. Unless you can disprove my claim then despite what you say I stand by the fact people died because of his idiotic decisions. You know, in debate, that’s called _argumentum ad ignoratium_, the logical fallacy that says your opponent is responsible for disproving your claim. I say there’s a little teapot in orbit around the sun between Mars and Jupiter’s orbit. Prove me wrong, or you have to accept it’s there. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/399 "2017-05-17T10:54:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I have a reminder system. Is it powered by your determination to be proven right? Powerful stuff. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/400 "2017-05-17T10:56:11Z")
No, that’s not the proper use of that fallacy. He’s not saying it’s true because it hasn’t been proven false. He’s saying it’s true based on reasonable inference from other facts he knows, and explaining why we wouldn’t have more concrete evidence. You are free to argue that his inferences are unreasonable, but you’re wrong to call his logic fallacious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327.md?page=21)