# Impeach Trump. Now. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327 "2017-02-20T16:47:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/481 "2017-05-18T15:18:36Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > For what possible reason would you consider the posts separately? > > The earlier post detailed his reasons for thinking that people stuck in those countries may be harmed. > > You’re free to disagree with the inferences being drawn. But it just isn’t a logical fallacy. Since this is a stupid little rabbit hole, I’ll leave it here. OK, but you’re confusing 2 things. There were some anecdotes offered about someone who might have been harmed, and there was a jump to the assertion that some people had died. A request was made concerning the latter. No evidence was ever offered for that. None. Zero. If there was, why doesn’t someone just quote it instead of insisting it’s there, somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/482 "2017-05-18T15:22:00Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > He hasn’t taken aim at him publicly. And why do imagine he would? Pence hasn’t done anything remotely worthy of an attack even by Trump standards. From your article: > [@](#): > > But such whispers are cringe-worthy for Pence and his aides, who have made an art of not upstaging the mercurial president. Pence’s press secretary declined to comment for this article. Trump likes to lash out but Pence is basically untouchable atm and publicly being a total team player. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/483 "2017-05-18T15:24:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK, but you’re confusing 2 things. There were some anecdotes offered about someone who might have been harmed, and there was a jump to the assertion that some people had died. A request was made concerning the latter. No evidence was ever offered for that. None. Zero. If there was, why doesn’t someone just quote it instead of insisting it’s there, somewhere? You’re dressing up an attack on the reasonableness of an inference as “confusion” or “fallacy,” but what you’re actually doing is just disagreeing with an inference. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/484 "2017-05-18T15:44:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > No, right now the 25th Amendment business is being pushed by _conservatives_. And it would have to be initiated by Pence and half of Trump’s cabinet anyway. > > If conservatives are sincere about this, that’s their ballgame, but they should have to wait their turn… It isn’t Monopoly. The 25th Amendment is meant to remove a President from office for different reasons than the impeachment process. If Pence and the rest of Cabinet were to actually decide “this guy can’t be President anymore because he’s not of sound mind, and the 25th Amendment seems to apply here” they should NOT wait their turn, they should remove him from office at once. It would be their duty. They would not do this in any event, because ideology \> America to these people. But it would be right, if they truly believed Trump was unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/485 "2017-05-18T15:47:53Z")
Isn’t it true that if the 25th is invoked, Trump could challenge it every few days and Congress would have to vote, over and over again, every few days, each time declaring him unfit to serve? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/486 "2017-05-18T15:52:55Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Trump likes to lash out but Pence is basically untouchable atm and publicly being a total team player. It took me a bit to realize you meant “at the moment,” prompting me to instead picture a ‘mysterious benefactor’ superhero – bulletproof by dint of being like unto some kind of phantom, helpfully bankrolling his fellow costumed do-gooders – or, if you will, a basically untouchable ATM being a total team player. Ah, if only. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/487 "2017-05-18T15:58:07Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You’ve literally omitted all the portions of that post containing the evidence. I quoted the entire post: > [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > I can’t cite something that wasn’t investigated or made public. How would I go to look at all the countries trump banned and find out whoever got killed because they had to get away. It would good if nobody died but the fact people’s lifes were put into jeapordy. Unless you can disprove my claim then despite what you say I stand by the fact people died because of his idiotic decisions. Click the link. It doesn’t grow more words. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/488 "2017-05-18T16:01:01Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Isn’t it true that if the 25th is invoked, Trump could challenge it every few days and Congress would have to vote, over and over again, every few days, each time declaring him unfit to serve? The VP and the Cabinet would have 4 days to respond to Trump’s challenge and after that Congress would have 3 weeks to vote on it. So no, Trump couldn’t do it every few days. Once a month. [Quote=25th Amendment] **Section 4.** Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President. Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/489 "2017-05-18T16:07:59Z")
Also it looks by the wording that Congress could set up a Trump Competency Commission so the Cabinet wouldn’t have to keep voting on it. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/490 "2017-05-18T16:16:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Click the link. It doesn’t grow more words. You plucked a reply from a 3-consecutive-post conversation in which the first post answers your question. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/491 "2017-05-18T16:28:15Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You plucked a reply from a 3-consecutive-post conversation in which the first post answers your question. Was it this post? > [@Barack\_Obama](#): > > A close friend of my wife actually worked for our intelligence community over seas. He would do translations, and actually spy on terrorist groups. He and his family were given US citizenship and moved over here once someone uncovered his working for the US. Trump signed an executive order banning anyone from the country he was in at that time. I spent 5 days with his wife and my father working to get him back over here. > > His life was in serious danger for 144 hours while he waited to get back in the states because of trumps ridiculous order. He could of fucking died not to mention all the people that DID DIE because they couldnt get into the states at that time. I will not tolerate some wannabe dictator threatening my friends and family because he feels entitled. Trump will be impeached over the russian investigation. He’s already proven he has ties with russia by not releasing his tax returns once becoming president. I will continue to do my very best to fight against him and anyone ignorantly supporting him. For the next 4 years until he’s impeached I wont rest until he’s punished for almost killing my close friend over some stupid ass campaign politics. Trump should not only be impeached but held liable for treason against the united states due to his russian ties. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/492 "2017-05-18T16:32:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Absolutely. > > And even the statement that a crime is needed is my observation about political reality, not a legal bar. There is no legal barrier to the House passing a single article of impeachment that says: “Resolved that Donald Trump is unprepared to competently execute the office of President and is hereby impeached.” > > That’s legal, and it triggers the need for the Senate to try the case. And if two-thirds of the Senators vote to convict, then Trump is removed from office. That’s all the legal standard requires. > > The Senate adopts its own burden of proof. Really? Because I thought there has to be some accusation of a criminal act in order to support an impeachment. That seemed to be the point established at Samuel Chase’s impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/493 "2017-05-18T16:35:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Was it this post? I am so confused by this question. Did you not realize that D’Anconia’s post was in reference to that? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/494 "2017-05-18T16:37:03Z")
Look Bricker, **Barack Obama** is obviously saying that since his friend was kept in mortal danger it’s safe to assume some people died. That’s obviously a leap so disagree all you like but do you need to turn this into another stupid “logical fallacy” thread? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/495 "2017-05-18T17:01:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Really? Because I thought there has to be some accusation of a criminal act in order to support an impeachment. That seemed to be the point established at Samuel Chase’s impeachment. That’s certainly a political reality, but it’s not a legal requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/496 "2017-05-18T17:02:58Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Look Bricker, **Barack Obama** is obviously saying that since his friend was kept in mortal danger it’s safe to assume some people died. That’s obviously a leap so disagree all you like but do you need to turn this into another stupid “logical fallacy” thread? Yes. According to that post, his friend was an American citizen; Trump’s ban had no effect on him. So that post contains no evidence at all from which someone could infer anything. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/497 "2017-05-18T17:04:12Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I am so confused by this question. Did you not realize that D’Anconia’s post was in reference to that? I’m asking, because I didn’t know what post you meant. And that post, also, has no evidence from which anyone could infer anyone died. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/498 "2017-05-18T17:13:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And that post, also, has no evidence from which anyone could infer anyone died. **Bricker** , Lord Chancellor of Inferences, need not actually argue whether a given inference is reasonable or unreasonable. He can simply declare it to be so, and not only is it rendered unreasonable, but it is rendered _not even an inference_. Such is the Lord Chancellor’s power. I don’t know why we decided to give you that position, but I guess our only hope now is impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/499 "2017-05-18T17:18:11Z")
By the way, the way we “give citizenship” to people who help us in Iraq and Syria is that they get a Special Immigrant Visa to come here and complete naturalization. The Muslim Ban did affect many such people. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/500 "2017-05-18T17:29:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. > > According to that post, his friend was an American citizen; Trump’s ban had no effect on him. So that post contains no evidence at all from which someone could infer anything. If they hadn’t been issued a U.S. passport, the ban could easily have an effect on them. > **[How Trump’s travel ban affects green card holders and dual citizens | CNN...](https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/29/politics/donald-trump-travel-ban-green-card-dual-citizens/)** > > President Donald Trump’s immigration executive order set off mass confusion at airports and even the agencies in charge of implementing it. > [@](#): > > **What if you are a dual citizen from one of Trump’s seven banned countries?** > > The situation is similar for people from Trump’s seven banned countries who also hold valid passports from Trump approved countries: confusion reigns. > > Initially, the guidance provided by a State Department official was that someone who holds dual citizenship from one of the seven banned countries would be barred from entering the United States. > > “Travelers who have nationality or dual nationality of one of these countries will not be permitted for 90 days to enter the United States or be issued an immigrant or non-immigrant visa,” a State Department official said Saturday. “Those nationals or dual nationals holding valid immigrant or non-immigrant visas will not be permitted to enter the United States during this period.” But hey, feel free to continue to painfully slow walk us through your objections. Your unparalleled logic skills will get you through. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327.md?page=26)