# Impeach Trump. Now.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [February 20, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327 "2017-02-20T16:47:01Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/81 "2017-02-20T21:52:01Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#):
>
> I have no problem with resignation.
> But I think that too is wildly optimistic, even in the world in which the evidence becomes far more clear. I don’t think the GOP majority would ever push for resignation. Full stop. At the very most, they would stop working with him in Congress and do what they could to ensure, through Pence and Priebus, that he is sidelined to the extent possible in any executive decision-making. They would happily risk the freedom of Estonia for an increased chance of a corporate tax cut.
> .
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#):
>
> Unfortunately, I don’t think impeachment happens unless it’s clear to the majority of Republicans that the consequences of a Trump presidency include either real or electoral disaster …
> … I’m hoping for the combination of steadily falling poll numbers plus an unexpected Democratic upset in at least one of the [five special elections](https://ballotpedia.org/Special_elections_to_the_115th_United_States_Congress_(2017-2018)) that will be held this year for what would ordinarily be safe Republican seats. …
Yes, the GOP Congress wants to get their cherished projects accomplished and will ignore all but the clearest of evidence, unless less-clear evidence has a strong enough anti-Trump effect on voters (as might be previewed in those special elections) to raise ouster-from-Congress fears among the party-before-country Republicans.
But we are forgetting that there is another player, here: a player who does possess the clearest of evidence that Trump has committed (probably) treason: Putin.
There are whispers that the Russians are taken aback by the erratic conduct of their puppet, and that the celebrations that took place in Moscow on November 8 have transitioned to anxiety about the way Russia remains the focus of attention in the USA and elsewhere:
> [@](#):
>
> What the Kremlin fears most today is that Trump may be ousted or even killed. His ouster, Kremlin insiders argue, is bound to unleash a virulent and bipartisan anti-Russian campaign in Washington. …
> Trump’s presidency has also complicated Moscow’s relations with China and Iran. Moscow is interested in normalization with the West but not at the cost of joining a Washington-led anti-China coalition, which Trump seems insistent on creating. Moreover, Putin’s Russia hosts up to 20 million Muslims and therefore cannot indulge in the radical anti-Islam rhetoric adopted by Trump.
> What is especially dangerous from the Kremlin’s perspective is that certain nationalistic circles in Russia are falling in love with Trump’s insurrectionary approach.
[The Kremlin Is Starting to Worry About Trump – Foreign Policy](http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/02/13/the-kremlin-is-starting-to-worry-about-trump/)
The GOP Congress may be interested in keeping any investigations slow and ineffective. But Putin is perfectly capable of short-circuiting their plans to keep Trump a-signing those bills: Putin _has_ the evidence that would bring down Trump. It’s his to use as he thinks best (for his own survival).
If he decides to spill it, the GOP will be caught short. They will have to impeach (or persuade Trump to resign), and hope that Pence can inherit some of Trump’s fans.
---
### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/82 "2017-02-20T21:56:40Z")
> [@doorhinge](#):
>
> Hahahaha. A leading historian who doesn’t seem to understand how the process actually works. The dwindling number of elected Democrats in the U.S. Congress still need more seats/votes in Congress in order to proceed with an impeachment. Especially when they have no actual evidence.
Many don’t share your faith in the current crop of Republican wingnuts consistently putting party before country. I’m not naive enough to suggest that they may suddenly acquire integrity – I’m just cynical enough to believe that there’s one thing they value more than party OR country, and that’s their own political future. If and when Trump starts becoming a clear liability, these self-serving paragons of avarice will turn on him like rabid dogs to save their own hides.
Also, you should study historical patterns of voting behavior before pontificating on “the dwindling number of elected Democrats in the U.S. Congress”.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/83 "2017-02-20T22:04:18Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#):
>
> You’re either mistaken or misunderstanding my point.
>
> It’s not actually true that the dems need to flip Trump voters in order to take back the House. As you and John Mace seem to be unaware, Clinton won over twenty districts currently held by GOP reps. And, even apart from that, since more people vote in general elections, if Dems could simply turn out all Hillary voters in a mid-terms, they would win in a landslide.
>
> As you note, and as I already said, however, it would be helpful to win Trump voters. This is because turning out dems in mid-terms has proved to be pretty hard. But who knows what might happen. We are deep into unexplored political territory.
You don’t think “simply turn out all Hillary voters in a mid-terms [sic]” is an actual strategy, do you? Of course both sides try furiously to get as many of their supporters to the polls in mid-terms as they can, and they always fall many millions of voters short of that goal. Hell, just look at 2016: HRC got 66 million votes, but Team Pelosi only got 61 million. Let that sink in: your side lost 5 million HRC voters. They were already in the booth, or filling out their absentee ballot. For purposes of GOTV efforts, your side had already succeeded here. They were already “turned out”. All they had to do was go down the list from where they checked the box for Clinton and also check the box for their Dem congressperson, and they _didn’t_. 5 million of them didn’t!
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/84 "2017-02-20T22:09:11Z")
> [@doorhinge](#):
>
> The short answer, of course, is No.
>
> A longer answer would be that having your feelings hurt by the fact that a Republican could beat Hillary the First, you now want the elected Republicans to do something about it. Key word being _elected_. The Democrats screwed themselves out of continuing to hold a majority position in the U.S. Congress. I guess Obama was right, elections do have consequences.
>
> There is little, or no, evidence of an impeachable offense. Calling for impeachment appears to be nothing more than sour grapes.
Everybody else in this thread has been talking about illegal Russian connections with Trump and his staff. And if Trump were impeached, Pence becomes President. This has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton and nobody had mentioned her.
You’re embarrassing yourself.
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/85 "2017-02-20T22:10:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#):
>
> I’m not sure that implying that Republicans are putting their own partisan interests before the country’s, and then asking them for help in impeaching the leader of their party, is a path that’s likely to lead to success. Maybe next time try not to insult the people who’s help you’re asking for.
After all the nasty shit that spews out of Trump’s mouth that Republicans are happily eating up by the bucketful, I’m not about to buy this “We might listen if you talk _real purty_ to us” nonsense.
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### Author:  [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/86 "2017-02-20T22:10:40Z")
I don’t know what emotional point you’re trying to make, but it doesn’t seem related to my simple observation of numerical facts.
If you want you want to talk strategy, I think going after the 23 CDs with a GOP rep that Trump lost is a good one. And it counts on winning those Clinton votes for a Dem, not flipping Trump votes. Though, again (not sure how often I need to say this), it will be easier if Trump folks also come along.
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### Author:  [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/87 "2017-02-20T22:14:14Z")
> [@running\_coach](#):
>
> You got beaten to it. And by an actual analysis based on logic rather than partisanship.
Hahahaha. Beaten to it? Was there a race? Maybe a national race? A popular national race?
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/88 "2017-02-20T22:15:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> Everybody else in this thread has been talking about illegal Russian connections with Trump and his staff. And if Trump were impeached, Pence becomes President. This has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton and nobody had mentioned her.
This.
The extreme dislike of, and deep concern about, Trump since he took office has **little to nothing** to do with the fact that he beat Clinton. And, I can guarantee you that every single Democrat realizes that if Trump were to leave office, he would almost certainly be replaced by Pence – and while they abhor some of Pence’s stances, he does come across as an adult, most of the time, when he isn’t trying to defend his boss.
This has **nothing** to do with the fact that Trump was elected as a Republican, and **everything** to do with the fact that our sitting President is an erratic, crazy-acting asshole, who may well be compromised by Russia.
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### Author:  [@Pearl\_Clutching\_Provocateur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pearl_Clutching_Provocateur)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/89 "2017-02-20T22:22:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> After all the nasty shit that spews out of Trump’s mouth that Republicans are happily eating up by the bucketful, I’m not about to buy this “We might listen if you talk _real purty_ to us” nonsense.
Angry talk will scare away middle of the road people. So keep talking. Trump and his supporters will keep grinning and…winning.
No impeachment. Eight years from now he hands over the reins to Ivanka. Then you get your first female POTUS.
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### Author:  [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/90 "2017-02-20T22:22:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> After all the nasty shit that spews out of Trump’s mouth that Republicans are happily eating up by the bucketful, I’m not about to buy this “We might listen if you talk _real purty_ to us” nonsense.
FYI - I doubt anyone outside of the Democrat collective is going to intentionally digest repetitive courses of sour grapes and bitter cheese.
However, if you intend to CONVINCE others to buy what you’re selling, which is what you’re hoping to do isn’t it, you’re going to have to change tactics. But don’t do so on my account. I like things the way they are. Democrats on the outside, pleading to get back in.
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### Author:  [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/91 "2017-02-20T22:26:56Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#):
>
> … impeach and remove Trump before he gives away a good chunk of Ukraine, or sends the EU on the road to breakup, or lets Putin grab a Baltic or three.
Trump doesn’t have the power to break up the EU, though conservatives would support it because they hate Europe, welfare capitalism, and the idea of a burgeoning state or alliance of states that could threaten American hegemony. Russia fear-mongering also won’t be of much use, since conservatives admire Russia as a white, illiberal state that fights against homosexuals and feminist agitators.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/92 "2017-02-20T22:30:47Z")
> [@doorhinge](#):
>
> FYI - I doubt anyone outside of the Democrat collective is going to intentionally digest repetitive courses of sour grapes and bitter cheese.
>
> However, if you intend to CONVINCE others to buy what you’re selling, which is what you’re hoping to do isn’t it, you’re going to have to change tactics. But don’t do so on my account. I like things the way they are. Democrats on the outside, pleading to get back in.
It’s posts like this that convince me that your “advice” when it comes to how Democrats should proceed isn’t worth jack shit. It would be like taking the advice from the guy sitting across from you at the poker table while he was running off at the mouth about how much he was going to take you to the cleaners.
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### Author:  [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/93 "2017-02-20T22:33:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> Everybody else in this thread has been talking about illegal Russian connections with Trump and his staff. And if Trump were impeached, Pence becomes President. This has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton and nobody had mentioned her.
>
> You’re embarrassing yourself.
Hahahaha. I’m not the one who introduced Hillary, or Clinton, to this thread, but you have no way of knowing that.
That must be so em-bare-ass-ing, for you. Thanks for playing.
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### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/94 "2017-02-20T22:34:09Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#):
>
> I don’t know what emotional point you’re trying to make, but it doesn’t seem related to my simple observation of numerical facts.
>
> If you want you want to talk strategy, I think going after the 23 CDs with a GOP rep that Trump lost is a good one. And it counts on winning those Clinton votes for a Dem, not flipping Trump votes. Though, again (not sure how often I need to say this), it will be easier if Trump folks also come along.
I think you’re obfuscating, or ignorant (which your original claim about “mid-term” vs “general” elections would suggest). Your first post on the subject said “because Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by a pretty decent margin, it follows that Democrats do not actually need any Trump voters in order to take back the House of Representatives.”
You’ve since fallen into this argument about these 23 Clinton-Republican Congressional districts. I assume that you got that number from [the Daily Kos](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/19/1163009/-Daily-Kos-Elections-presidential-results-by-congressional-district-for-the-2012-2008-elections). Your argument is still ridiculous though. For starters, the 218 Trump-Republican districts are enough for Republicans to hold their majority. In other words, even if Dems managed to target and win all 23 of the HRC-Republican CDs, that still wouldn’t be enough to “take back the House of Representatives”. There’s also the issue of a dozen Trump-Democrat districts that will undoubtedly be high-priority targets for Republicans.
Furthermore, in discussing these 23 districts, in which Clinton won a plurality, but so did the Republican congressional candidate: We’re talking about districts with enough ticket-splitting for the end result to be a vote for President of one party and Congressman of the other party. What makes you think that just turning out more of the ticket-splitting Clinton-Republican voters would help Dems win the seat? It wasn’t enough for them to win the seat in 2016.
Now, if you’d like to withdraw your original claim in post #44, I’m sure we can all agree that, as a matter of strategy, the 23 Clinton-Republican CDs ought to be high on the Dems priority list.
---
### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/95 "2017-02-20T22:38:33Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#):
>
> You’re either mistaken or misunderstanding my point.
>
> It’s not actually true that the dems need to flip Trump voters in order to take back the House. As you and John Mace seem to be unaware, Clinton won over twenty districts currently held by GOP reps. And, even apart from that, since more people vote in general elections, if Dems could simply turn out all Hillary voters in a mid-terms, they would win in a landslide.
I don’t think I misunderstood you. Whether I am mistaken will be seen in a couple of years.
Fine, Hillary won some GOP Congressional districts. Those districts, as you mention, are currently in GOP hands. IOW the Dems won the Presidential vote in those districts, and the GOP won the Congressional races in those districts. If everyone votes as they did in 2016, the seats remain with the GOP.
And historically, voters, especially Democrats, don’t turn out in mid-terms as they do in Presidential years. The main reason Hillary lost is that she didn’t turn out the Democratic votes, especially among blacks, as Obama did. If history holds true, the Dems are not going to turn out all the Hillary voters, and even if they do, they are still likely to lose, as they did the Congressional races.
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/96 "2017-02-20T22:39:41Z")
Isn’t it really time now to stop the whining. On the internet.
I guess people feel somewhat helpless. They want a big solution now, a pill that will make all this go away, and impeachment is it.
Do you think the USA isn’t still a basket case for democratic representation, what do you think has or will change, you all want Paul Ryan or some other bought and paid parochial halfwit instead?
You’re fucked until you change the system: again, Trump is nothing more than a symptom.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/97 "2017-02-20T22:40:31Z")
Suppose the Democrats try to impeach Trump but the motion doesn’t pass. Will that failed attempt burnish Trump’s image, or tarnish it?
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### Author:  [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/98 "2017-02-20T22:48:19Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#):
>
> . . . You’re fucked until you change the system: again, Trump is nothing more than a symptom.
What real changes would you suggest? (And what conceivable changes could gain the support of 3/4 of the states?)
The American system had a severe hiccup (okay, a nasty onset of diarrhea) this time, but, really, would we be better off under a parliamentary system, a plenary system, a proportional system, or any other variety? All of them have built-in logical flaws that lead to unwanted results in certain circumstances.
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### Author:  [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/99 "2017-02-20T22:50:19Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> It’s posts like this that convince me that your “advice” when it comes to how Democrats should proceed isn’t worth jack shit. It would be like taking the advice from the guy sitting across from you at the poker table while he was running off at the mouth about how much he was going to take you to the cleaners.
Taking free advice? Over the internet? Seriously?
I am so convinced that the Democrat collective can not/will not accept good advice coming from outside of the Democrat collective’s Groupthink, that I’ve chosen to give advice freely, and without reservation.
If you want to impeach any President, you are going to need actual evidence of an impeachable offense, and a sufficient number of votes to make it happen. You guys ain’t got neither.
(p.s. - When you finally get there, be sure to say something nice to the guy at the cleaners. You wouldn’t want them to accidentally burn your shirts on purpose. 😃
---
### Author:  [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)
#### Post date: [February 20, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeach-trump-now/780327/100 "2017-02-20T22:57:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> After all the nasty shit that spews out of Trump’s mouth that Republicans are happily eating up by the bucketful, I’m not about to buy this “We might listen if you talk _real purty_ to us” nonsense.
On the one hand, you’re right. It doesn’t really matter what **RTFirefly** says, who he insults, or what sort of language he uses. No one in power listens to him or cares what he thinks about anything. And I’m not trying to single **RTFirefly** out either. It’s certainly true of myself as well. I don’t have Paul Ryan’s ear. I assume you, **Czarcasm** , are not advising Nancy Pelosi either. The world is likely to carry on about the same regardless of what Dopers post here.
My post was mostly motivated by a serious downturn in the quality of the discourse here, at the Straight Dope, since the election. This used to be a place with lots of intellectual discussion and relatively little name-calling and childish whining. Since the election, that ratio has been turned on its head, at least in my view. It seems like a significantly-more-juvenile place than before. There are more silly nicknames for President Trump, more vitriol directed at political opponents, the level of thinking that goes into a lot of posts seems worse, etc. It’s disappointing. I liked this place before, and I’d like to see it get back to what it was.
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