# Impeachment possiibilty **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 19, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231 "2018-07-19T21:48:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/21 "2018-07-24T16:23:42Z")
If you want to follow those who are betting on it you have this (odds in Ireland): > [@](#): > > A… the bookies jumped up the odds that 45 will find himself impeached while in office from 8/1 to 2/1. The odds that it will happen before the end of 2018 have also improved from 12/1 to 8/1. … From [Paddy Power increases odds on Trump impeachment | IrishCentral.com](https://www.irishcentral.com/news/trump-impeachment-odds) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/22 "2018-07-24T16:32:38Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > People mention the Mueller probe. I tend to think that if there were anything REALLY damming in that thing, they would have put out something by now. It has been over a year. I think they are still trying to find something that will make it damming. Or they may be trying to be as careful as possible. Like it or not, “beyond a reasonable doubt” is going to be a much higher bar for a corrupt President than for a corrupt alderman. Realistically, the case they bring against Trump that they hand over to (presumably) the House Judiciary Committee is going to have to be overwhelming - not just beyond reasonable doubts, but beyond the vast majority of absurd and ridiculous doubts as well. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/23 "2018-07-24T16:38:16Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > If you want to follow those who are betting on it you have this (odds in Ireland): Those 2018 odds: it’s hard for me to imagine that Trump will be impeached in 2018, no matter what evidence comes to light. Even if Mueller handed the House an ironclad case, the leadership would punt it to next year so that they could blame it on the Dems. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/24 "2018-07-24T16:40:50Z")
If Congress does decide to impeach Trump, the easiest path would be to go after him for corruption. There are numerous examples of individuals, organizations, and foreign countries that have received favorable treatment from the administration after paying Trump large sums of money. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/25 "2018-07-24T16:42:30Z")
> [@bardos](#): > > LOL… you would be surprised. there have been several. of course YMMV Based on this thread alone, I don’t think we need to take your assertion seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/26 "2018-07-24T16:45:29Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > I really don’t care, do you? I care very much. Trump has set a lot of terrible precedents already. We don’t need to set another one by removing a President via government-sanctioned assassination. It would be Trump this time but it could be a good President next time. Trump should be removed from office but it should be done by legal means. And if we can’t remove him by legal means, we should just endure his presidency rather than use illegal means. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/27 "2018-07-24T16:47:11Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > People mention the Mueller probe. I tend to think that if there were anything REALLY damming in that thing, they would have put out something by now. It has been over a year. I think they are still trying to find something that will make it damming. > > It is not that I think Trump is innocent. Everything they have found so far is too minor to make a real difference. Maybe not so minor. Back in May this was printed: > [@](#): > > 22 - people and companies charged > > 75 - criminal charges brought so far > > 5 - guilty pleas > > 1 - person sentenced > > SOURCE: [https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/17/politics/one-year-robert-mueller-russia-investigation-special-counsel/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/17/politics/one-year-robert-mueller-russia-investigation-special-counsel/index.html) Since then he has, at the least, added [12 more indictments](https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/13/politics/russia-investigation-indictments/index.html). Not bad for 14 months of work. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/28 "2018-07-24T16:51:20Z")
> [@bardos](#): > > I mean Bill Clinton actually committed perjury, didn’t he? That was a slam dunk as far as evidence was concerned, wasn’t it? and yet he beat it. > . Well kinda. He lied under oath, but that isn’t enough to make it perjury. The lie must be deliberate and material. Was it? Note he was never actually charged in a criminal court with perjury. Back to the Op. It all depends- if the GOP decides Trump is more of a liability and that dumping Trump would be good for the party, sure, they could cut their losses. Pence is a dependable sort for the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/29 "2018-07-24T17:34:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well kinda. He lied under oath, but that isn’t enough to make it perjury. The lie must be deliberate and material. Was it? He was found in contempt of court for giving intentionally false and misleading testimony. [Cite](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-clinton-fined-and-disbarred-over-the-monica-lewinsky-scandal/). > [@](#): > > Note he was never actually charged in a criminal court with perjury. He was not criminally charged. > [@](#): > > On his last day in office in 2001, Clinton agreed to a five-year suspension of his Arkansas law license in order to head off any criminal charges for lying under oath about his relationship with Lewinsky. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/30 "2018-07-24T17:37:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > . . . if the GOP decides Trump is more of a liability and that dumping Trump would be good for the party, sure, they could cut their losses. And they probably are taking into consideration the liability Trump could become even after being removed from office. It’s a publicity machine geared toward that 30% or so of the population that are so stupid they’ll believe anything he says, in or out of office. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/31 "2018-07-24T17:37:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > He was found in contempt of court for giving intentionally false and misleading testimony. [Cite](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-clinton-fined-and-disbarred-over-the-monica-lewinsky-scandal/). > > He was not criminally charged. Yes, but that is _false and misleading testimony_, not perjury. So, then no, Bill was not guilty of Perjury. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/32 "2018-07-24T18:41:13Z")
Sure, but so what? Giving false testimony is just as good (or as bad) a reason to impeach and/or remove from office as perjury, or mopery, or spitting on the sidewalk. You don’t need evidence of a crime, or a civil offense - all you need is a reason that convinces a majority of the House and two thirds of the Senate. Congress can only remove a President from office, and prevent him or her from holding any other office. They can’t send anyone to prison or impose fines or anything other than those two options. A high crime or misdemeanor is pretty much anything Congress wants it to be. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/33 "2018-07-24T18:51:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Sure, but so what? Giving false testimony is just as good (or as bad) a reason to impeach and/or remove from office as perjury, or mopery, or spitting on the sidewalk. You don’t need evidence of a crime, or a civil offense - all you need is a reason that convinces a majority of the House and two thirds of the Senate. Congress can only remove a President from office, and prevent him or her from holding any other office. They can’t send anyone to prison or impose fines or anything other than those two options. > > A high crime or misdemeanor is pretty much anything Congress wants it to be. Sure, they could have impeached Bill for hitting a bad note while playing his saxophone, too. But actually a “high crime” does mean something for which the death penalty could be imposed. Adding that “misdemeanor” does add a plethora of crimes however. In any case, people just need to stop saying Bill committed Perjury. He didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/34 "2018-07-24T18:51:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Sure, but so what? It seems he was punished once out of office by having his law license suspended. Would it have been worse had it been perjury? Or add perjury to the list? No idea…dunno what the penalties are for these things and it seems he negotiated a deal anyway. That said there were more ramifications to it than just impeachment. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/35 "2018-07-24T19:06:12Z")
> [@bardos](#): > > What would the prosecutor’s case be based upon other than emotion? Trump could be impeached for violating the emoluments clause of the constitution. It’s not especially hard to find evidence that he is receiving foreign profits while president. > **[Lawsuit allowed to proceed that alleges Trump took foreign gifts](https://www.pressherald.com/2018/03/28/lawsuit-allowed-to-proceed-that-alleges-trump-took-foreign-gifts/)** > > Two jurisdictions are permitted to sue the president over his involvement with Trump International Hotel in D.C., but not related to other properties. If you want to limit the impeachment to his collusion with Russia, then most people would agree that it makes sense to wait for the Mueller probe to conclude. Mueller is still busy flipping witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/36 "2018-07-24T19:06:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In any case, people just need to stop saying Bill committed Perjury. He didn’t. What is necessary to say that someone “committed” perjury? In my view, the record adduced at the proceedings at which his law license was lost is legally sufficient, if introduced at a perjury trial, to convict him of perjury. But he was not convicted of perjury. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/37 "2018-07-24T19:24:52Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > I really don’t care, do you? > [@Shodan](#): > > It depends on what the lone nut does, and how the anti-Trump forces went searching for him. > > Please tell me that, if some anti-Trump person or group, conspired to do something illegal to bring Trump down, that you would care. Suppose they got caught, as is almost inevitable. What effect would that have on the country? What effect would that have on the Democrats and/or never-Trumpers? > > Suppose they got away with it. Is that how you want the country to be run? > > There is a fair amount of complaining about how un-democratic the Electoral College is. ISTM that a criminal conspiracy is even less so. If progressives/Democrats/never-Trumpers have the votes in the House, then impeach him. If they have the votes in the Senate, then remove him from office. > > If they don’t, and they start looking for a 2018 version of Lee Harvey Oswald, then they need to be arrested, given a fair trial, and then hanged for conspiracy to commit murder. > > **We do not do God-damned coups in the US.** > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I care very much. Trump has set a lot of terrible precedents already. We don’t need to set another one by removing a President via government-sanctioned assassination. It would be Trump this time but it could be a good President next time. > > Trump should be removed from office but it should be done by legal means. And if we can’t remove him by legal means, we should just endure his presidency rather than use illegal means. I really don’t care. Do U? I assume that’s what **DB** was getting at. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/38 "2018-07-24T19:29:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But actually a “high crime” does mean something for which the death penalty could be imposed. [No, it doesn’t mean that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_crimes_and_misdemeanors). It means a crime that can only be committed by someone in government, or in “high office”. It could be a petty crime committed by a high official. Or, perhaps, an official who is high. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/39 "2018-07-24T20:38:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > [No, it doesn’t mean that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_crimes_and_misdemeanors). It means a crime that can only be committed by someone in government, or in “high office”. It could be a petty crime committed by a high official. Or, perhaps, an official who is high. 🙂 Well, that exonerates Clinton. It is a well-known fact that he never actually inhaled. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231/40 "2018-07-25T13:17:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I really don’t care. Do U? > > I assume that’s what **DB** was getting at. Yes, I care very much if the means by which Trump is removed from office are legal or not. We have the rule of law in this country. Anyone who suggests an exception to that in the case of Trump is committing a betrayal of this country much worse than Trump. OK, hypothetical time. The usual magic genie presents you with a choice - [list=A][li]Trump serves out his full term, is re-elected, and serves out his second term as well.[/li][li]Anti-Trump progressives have located a Lone Nut who will assassinate Trump next Tuesday.[/list]Anyone who picks B is no countryman of mine.[/li] Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-possiibilty/818231.md?page=3)