# Impeachment proceedings...will they happen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 19, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795 "2019-04-19T23:08:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/301 "2019-04-27T02:11:31Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Here’s the actual process: Mitch McConnell is a brutal partisan, and it’s his senate - his alone. There will be no trial. None. He won’t have it. Once again, I will repeat the post of the thread, the only one that really means anything or that matters, distilling this entire exchange right down to its core. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/302 "2019-04-27T02:48:35Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Once again, I will repeat the post of the thread, the only one that really means anything or that matters, distilling this entire exchange right down to its core. Fuck it. The Dems should do it anyway. I’ve seen the counter arguments in this thread, but regardless of whether they actually impeach him, they still should try and, basically, if the Pubs block it then at least all this stuff will be out in the open and out with the public. I think if half the stuff is true it will eventually percolate up to the top. It might be that right now, today, that won’t mean anything…but I think it’s one of those death by a thousand cuts thing, and it will chip away at the Republicans when/if they support this idiot. This might set up Democratic victories for the next decade if they actually have the balls to go through with it and push the button. Fuck it Dems…push the damned button. That’s my opinion, FWIW. Take this bastard down. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/303 "2019-04-27T03:26:52Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Fuck it. The Dems should do it anyway. I’ve seen the counter arguments in this thread, but regardless of whether they actually impeach him, they still should try and, basically, if the Pubs block it then at least all this stuff will be out in the open and out with the public. I think if half the stuff is true it will eventually percolate up to the top. It might be that right now, today, that won’t mean anything…but I think it’s one of those death by a thousand cuts thing, and it will chip away at the Republicans when/if they support this idiot. This might set up Democratic victories for the next decade if they actually have the balls to go through with it and push the button. > > Fuck it Dems…push the damned button. That’s my opinion, FWIW. Take this bastard down. A plurality of Americans are independent; neither Republicans nor Democrats are particularly popular. I wish I could share your sense of optimism, but what the electorate is telling me is that we don’t know who we are. When most Americans vote (or consciously avoid voting), they don’t really identify with a party, they just don’t want to fuck things up. We’re a democracy, but we have no idea what we’re doing, which is how we ended up picking a foul mouthed, bigoted, sexist reality TV star over someone who had obvious faults but by comparison was far more qualified. What we said in 2016 was that qualifications don’t mean shit. I don’t expect us to have evolved that much in a few years. IN fact we haven’t evolved; we’re continuing a process of political devolution. That is a fact. The reason I am the most unpopular poster on these boards is because I speak truth, and I hold up the mirror and show everyone here who we really are, not who we pretend to be. And it makes people bitter and angry I guess. One day, when we are truly desperate, when we truly understand the magnitude of the crisis before us, we will change. But not until those circumstances are felt by the average person. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/304 "2019-04-27T03:30:18Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Let’s say the do: then what? The resolution has no binding authority. Alternatively, let’s say they don’t: then what? > > Impeaching Trump may or may not be good politickin’, but it would be good governance. Trump and the GOP have rendered your country completely untrustworthy; they’ve shown they’re willing to toss out international agreements on a whim, and you’ve shown you’re willing to elect such capricious ignoramuses. From now on, any treaties, pacts, or agreements any country has with the US best be written in pencil. If you want to keep your status in the world, best ditch Trump. > > And dissolve the Republican party while you’re at it. They are both unable and unwilling to govern. But first lose the Cheeto. Sorry, the America-hating fuckCheeto isn’t going anywhere while the GOP exists. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/305 "2019-04-27T03:40:16Z")
Fine. Hold impeachment hearings. Start them right now. And return Articles of Impeachment on October 30, 2020. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/306 "2019-04-27T03:49:22Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > A plurality of Americans are independent; neither Republicans nor Democrats are particularly popular. I wish I could share your sense of optimism, but what the electorate is telling me is that we don’t know who we are. When most Americans vote (or consciously avoid voting), they don’t really identify with a party, they just don’t want to fuck things up. We’re a democracy, but we have no idea what we’re doing, which is how we ended up picking a foul mouthed, bigoted, sexist reality TV star over someone who had obvious faults but by comparison was far more qualified. What we said in 2016 was that qualifications don’t mean shit. I don’t expect us to have evolved that much in a few years. IN fact we haven’t evolved; we’re continuing a process of political devolution. That is a fact. > > The reason I am the most unpopular poster on these boards is because I speak truth, and I hold up the mirror and show everyone here who we really are, not who we pretend to be. And it makes people bitter and angry I guess. One day, when we are truly desperate, when we truly understand the magnitude of the crisis before us, we will change. But not until those circumstances are felt by the average person. See, I agree with you that there are a ton of independents out there. I also think there are plenty of D or R voters that aren’t all that wedded to the party…they vote for them, but they aren’t in lockstep, and can and do move back and forth depending on the candidate. So, where I disagree is that, if they are presented with real, solid evidence, I don’t think they will react by dismissing it because they are partisan. I think what will happen is, if there is evidence it will eventually bite the Republicans on the ass. Oh, it won’t matter to the faithful on either side what the facts are…they will go along with the party. But to the center? I think it will make a difference, if the Dems have the balls to do it. You aren’t the most unpopular poster…I think I’m way more unpopular, and I’m not the most unpopular either. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/307 "2019-04-27T03:50:59Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Impeaching any other President under exactly these circumstances would be considered entirely the normal thing to do. But people are asking us to reject normalcy for the sake of partisanship. WRONG. We are accepting and acknowledging that partisanship, in its current manifestation, is making normalcy impossible. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/308 "2019-04-27T03:57:22Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Here is what Elizabeth Warren has said about impeachment: > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Elizabeth Warren > > The severity of this misconduct demands that elected officials in both parties set aside political considerations and do their constitutional duty. That means the House should initiate impeachment proceedings against the President of the United States. Did she go on to say that it also means that the constitutional duty of the Senate is to remove him from office? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/309 "2019-04-27T03:58:57Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > WRONG. …LOL. > [@](#): > > We are accepting and acknowledging that partisanship, in its current manifestation, is making normalcy impossible. Impeaching under the current circumstances would be entirely non-partisan. Choosing not to impeach because it will hurt the dems chances in 2020 \*\*is \*\*a partisan decision. You can’t hide from that. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/310 "2019-04-27T04:00:41Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Did she go on to say that it also means that the constitutional duty of the Senate is to remove him from office? …are you seriously going through everyone’s posts to cherry pick individual things to respond too? You can look up what she said. I’m not your fucking monkey. If you want to make a point just come out and say it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/311 "2019-04-27T04:21:27Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Fine. Hold impeachment hearings. Start them right now. > > And return Articles of Impeachment on October 30, 2020. Offhand, I can’t think of a better way to illustrate how blatantly partisan and political a maneuver it is. Go for it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/312 "2019-04-27T04:26:00Z")
(removed) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/313 "2019-04-27T04:26:05Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Why are we treating this as an either-or situation? Has America lost the ability to chew gum and walk? :dubious: > [@RTFirefly](#): > > I don’t know about _America_, but we’re talking about _the Democratic Party_ here. ☹ To be fair, the Democratic Party _is_ the one that hasn’t proven that they hate America; they’re a plausible proxy. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/314 "2019-04-27T04:30:42Z")
Because it will be _so hard_ to find “High Crimes and Misdemeanors” relating to Donald Trump. So, so, difficult. Which… to your point… by October 30th 2020 the American public might be screaming for mercy seeing Trump pummeled over and over by his own misdeeds. I mean, the Khashoggi (sp?) hearings _alone_ could take months, Ditka. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/315 "2019-04-27T04:37:08Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I think there IS a way to “impeach” with minimal posturing about We Must Do Our Duty, and I think that’s the smart way to go, assuming the activists get their way. > > As for ‘_less participation by Democrats in November 2020_’: yes, on the day the Senate votes to acquit Trump, and for many days and weeks thereafter, Trump and all the Congressional Republicans will be doing victory laps with plenty of media coverage from all the major outlets (not just FoxNews). All day and night. Every day and night, for days and days. And the great victory of Trump will dominate coverage in a way that Trump could never have hoped to do, if not for the impeachment/acquittal. > > And that will be a big giant humongous gift to Trump and to the Republicans. > > And a lot of people who would otherwise have been inclined to vote for the Democrat, will feel sickened and disgusted with the Democrats for giving Trump and the Republicans that particular gift. > All the claims that ‘Trump and the GOP will declare victory no matter what’s going on, even if there’s no impeachment’ ignore the fact that massive media coverage, by ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS/NPR, and the major newspapers, will be very different in the case of “_Senate Acquits Trump_” as opposed to the case of “_nothing happened in the Senate but Republicans are saying Trump is awesome anyway_.” > > It’s not smart to ignore this difference in the degree and intensity of coverage. Yep. The goal is going to be to deny him his moment of victory, and keep him tweeting _“The [del]13[/del] [del]18[/del] [del]59[/del] 235 Angry Democarts are being very Unfair to me!”_ up until November 4, 2020. Sure, he’s gonna bring it up at his rallies, but he was going to anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/316 "2019-04-27T04:50:44Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Yep. > > The goal is going to be to deny him his moment of victory, and keep him tweeting _“The [del]13[/del] [del]18[/del] [del]59[/del] 235 Angry Democarts are being very Unfair to me!”_ up until November 4, 2020. …I don’t think your tactic of “getting Trump to do exactly what you want him to do” is going to work out the way you think it will. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/317 "2019-04-27T05:56:03Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …all good 😃 > > We’ve been lucky. At the last election we very nearly elected someone who was dumber than Trump. His party got more votes: but we have proportional representation here. And the party that held the balance of power decided to give that power to the “moderate left”. So we’ve been one of the few countries to fight against the rise of what I call the “authoritarian trend.” But that only happened because of the electoral system we adopted, and because the party that held the balance of power decided to “reject a modified status quo” and thought that "capitalism needed to “regain its human face”. It could have been so very very different. > > My position is that this doesn’t matter. It simply isn’t relevant. > > This is absolutely horrific. [Its no wonder 80% of victims of rape and sexual assault never report their assault to police](https://theconversation.com/survivors-of-sexual-violence-are-let-down-by-the-criminal-justice-system-heres-what-should-happen-next-94138). There is nothing “smart” about not prosecuting an alleged murderer because he is somebody everybody loves. Thats a failure of the system. > > But that’s beside the point. It was an analogy. Nothing more. > > The bolded is the part that you don’t understand. > > I asked before: how are you determining likelihood? What metric are you using? > > I hold the position that we can’t determine “likelihood.” The situation right now is just too chaotic and too fluid for anyone to be able to predict what the impact of impeachment will be. The news cycle can be as short as only a few hours. Things are so dynamic. Can you even tell me some of the things that happened last week? Do you remember when Sean Spicer wore an over-size suit? Didn’t that feel like 15 years ago? We can’t know what will happen in 2020. We barely can remember what happened yesterday. As I said before: you are trying to play 3D chess with someone who is snookering you. > > If I summarised the position you hold as this: “Congress shouldn’t impeach, even if the more likely outcome of not impeaching would be that Trump wins re-election” wouldn’t you think that would be a disingenuous statement? > > I don’t accept that impeachment would make it more likely that Trump will win. My gut feeling is that it will be more likely that Trump will loose. But I can’t quantify that “gut feeling”, so I haven’t centred my arguments around this. > > So my position is that “the likelihood of Trump getting re-elected” is not a metric we should be using in determining whether or not to impeach. Congress should instead just do their jobs. > > Well that isn’t my standard. > > Okay then. > > I know how you pick your Presidents. Its entirely fucked up. But you don’t need “overwhelming public support” to impeach. There is no mechanism for this. It isn’t how the system works. > > [Impeachment in the United States - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States) > > [Trump could be impeached but removing him from office would be hard](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/04/24/trump-could-impeached-but-removing-him-office-would-hard/3560396002/) > > This isn’t about “removal from office.” Its about “bringing the indictment.” Glad you get that. But American voters (particularly the ones who get their news from a television set) tend to be pretty stupid. And they will all too often buy a narrative which says that acquittal is the exact same thing as proof that bringing him to trial was an injustice that he should not have had to contend with. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/318 "2019-04-27T06:16:57Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Glad you get that. …can you be a wee bit more specific? You quoted my entire post. Which bit are you “glad I get?” > [@](#): > > But American voters (particularly the ones who get their news from a television set) tend to be pretty stupid. And they will all too often buy a narrative which says that acquittal is the exact same thing as proof that bringing him to trial was an injustice that he should not have had to contend with. I don’t think “American voters” tend to be “stupider” than anyone other voter in the world. The narrative is set not only by the media, but also by the people that set and propagate that narrative. Like what you’ve just done here for instance. Some people will view " acquittal is the exact same thing as proof that bringing him to trial was an injustice." But you can’t quantify that. You can’t accurately predict what “some people believing something” will do to other voters. So why are did you bring it up? What are we supposed to do with this information? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/319 "2019-04-27T12:28:11Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …are you seriously going through everyone’s posts to cherry pick individual things to respond too? > > You can look up what she said. I’m not your fucking monkey. If you want to make a point just come out and say it. Not really. I just started reading the threads yesterday, and was making my responses to posts as I came upon them. I’ve only just now reached page 7 and effectively caught up. It’s becoming apparent that this is not an ideal approach to participating in an established thread. I probably won’t use it when I take on the Stupid Republican Idea of the Day thread in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/320 "2019-04-27T12:52:47Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > To be fair, the Democratic Party _is_ the one that hasn’t proven that they hate America; they’re a plausible proxy. Tru dat, but the times during the past 40 years when the Democratic Party has demonstrated the presence of a backbone have been disappointingly infrequent. In this characteristic, I’d submit that they’re not that great a proxy for America as a whole. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Oh? How many channels could _your_ TV tune into in 1974? None, during the daytime: nobody was home to turn the dial. And until the last several days of the hearings, when the actual articles of impeachment were being debated and voted on, that’s when the hearings were. It’s true that a lot of housewives were at home during the day in 1974, but the same cultural prejudices that trapped them in the role of housewives also resulted in their not being taken seriously as people. It only mattered when _men_ took time away from their work to tune in the proceedings. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795.md?page=17)