# Impeachment proceedings...will they happen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 19, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795 "2019-04-19T23:08:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/321 "2019-04-27T13:05:27Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > You’re just wrong about this. McConnell is the decision-maker; Roberts would merely be a non-voting presiding officer. Why not do some reading to educate yourself? > > Here’s an official 1986 govinfo document, that shows how wrong you are about the idea that the Chief Justice will be deciding how the “ballgame” is organized, conducted, and carried out: > > [https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CDOC-99sdoc33/html/CDOC-99sdoc33.htm](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CDOC-99sdoc33/html/CDOC-99sdoc33.htm) > > Also of interest: a scholarly work from 1999 (relating to Bill Clinton’s trial, of course): > > [https://scholarlycommons.law.hofstra.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2074&context=hlr](https://scholarlycommons.law.hofstra.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2074&context=hlr) Could you please quote particular passages that you believe supports your claim? Because my reading of your first cite is that it comes down on the opposite side, and your second, AFAICT, has only a couple of paragraphs on the subject, which seem to be more the author’s opinion than an argument supported with cites of its own. And while that might’ve been worth something if it had been a generally respected author writing in the _Harvard_ Law Review, some nobody’s article in the _Hofstra_ Law Review and a couple of dollars will get you a cup of coffee at McDonald’s. At any rate, until I know what specific language at each link you are saying supports your claim, I cannot provide a specific rebuttal because _you haven’t told me what it is that I might be rebutting_. IOW, you have a couple of _links_, but you don’t yet have a functioning _cite_. Until you fix that, your claim is JYHO. ---
**Author:** ![UnwittingAmericans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d9b06d/32.png) [@UnwittingAmericans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwittingAmericans)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/322 "2019-04-27T13:10:20Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Once again, I will repeat the post of the thread, the only one that really means anything or that matters, distilling this entire exchange right down to its core. So McConnell won’t allow a trial. 1. So what, Trump wouldn’t be convicted 2. Good, he can’t be “acquitted.” 3. Good, maybe 6 more people will wake up and realize what’s at stake in the election > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Tru dat, but the times during the past 40 years when the Democratic Party has demonstrated the presence of a backbone have been disappointingly infrequent. In this characteristic, I’d submit that they’re not that great a proxy for America as a whole. > None, during the daytime: nobody was home to turn the dial. And until the last several days of the hearings, when the actual articles of impeachment were being debated and voted on, that’s when the hearings were. > > It’s true that a lot of housewives were at home during the day in 1974, but the same cultural prejudices that trapped them in the role of housewives also resulted in their not being taken seriously as people. It only mattered when _men_ took time away from their work to tune in the proceedings. PBS broadcast all the Senate hearings live. A lot of PBS stations re-ran them at night. The networks rotated live coverage after the first week. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/323 "2019-04-27T13:51:08Z")
My personal opinions aside, I thought this was an interesting development: [https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/05/house-intelligence-daniel-goldman-1204140](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/05/house-intelligence-daniel-goldman-1204140) > [@](#): > > Chairman Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) announced on Tuesday that Daniel Goldman joined the committee last month as senior adviser and director of investigations. Goldman, who was second-in-command at SDNY’s organized crime unit, has prosecuted the Russian mob and has secured convictions for racketeering, murder and money laundering, including against the Genovese crime family. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/324 "2019-04-27T14:04:44Z")
> [@XT](#): > > This might set up Democratic victories for the next decade if they actually have the balls to go through with it and push the button. > > Fuck it Dems…push the damned button. That’s my opinion, FWIW. Take this bastard down. This, exactly this. Except he probably won’t go down. But if the most we can do is bloody his nose and expose his crony network, let’s at least try. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/325 "2019-04-27T14:08:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Offhand, I can’t think of a better way to illustrate how blatantly partisan and political a maneuver it is. Go for it. “Partisan” is a meaningless criticism coming from a Republican. They’ve been engaged in open partisan warfare since 1995. Their biggest weapon has been the pretense that bipartisanship is viable, and it’s time for Democrats to deprive them of that weapon. It’s time for Democrats to fight back. I’d like them to fight as hard and dirty as Mitch McConnell, but hell, any fight at all would be an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/326 "2019-04-27T15:24:35Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > “Partisan” is a meaningless criticism coming from a Republican. They’ve been engaged in open partisan warfare since 1995. Their biggest weapon has been the pretense that bipartisanship is viable, and it’s time for Democrats to deprive them of that weapon. > > It’s time for Democrats to fight back. I’d like them to fight as hard and dirty as Mitch McConnell, but hell, any fight at all would be an improvement. _shrug_ You guys had Harry Reid. He fought plenty dirty. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/327 "2019-04-27T15:38:08Z")
Shit! The “liberal hypocrisy” and “both sides do it!” cards _simultaneously_! Outsmarted again! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/328 "2019-04-27T15:41:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > _shrug_ You guys had Harry Reid. He fought plenty dirty. Sure. Politics gets rough. Nothing new there. But when Obama took office and republicans decided they would oppose anything he did all pretense of trying to run a country went out the window in favor of hyper-partisan politics. Hell, a few days ago McConnell [vowed to oppose Democratic proposals](https://www.salon.com/2019/04/24/mcconnell-vows-to-block-democratic-proposals-after-2020-elections-think-of-me-as-the-grim-reaper/) after 2020 elections. He doesn’t even know what they are yet and he is on the record opposing them. That has to be a new low. He’s not even pretending to want to legislate and come to accommodation. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/329 "2019-04-27T15:44:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Shit! The “liberal hypocrisy” and “both sides do it!” cards _simultaneously_! Outsmarted again! Plus, coming on the heels of a tut-tutting comment about partisanship, it’s the holy trinity of conservative dishonesty. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/330 "2019-04-27T15:49:09Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > The reason\*\* I am the most unpopular poster on these boards\*\* is because I speak truth, and I hold up the mirror and show everyone here who we really are, not who we pretend to be. And it makes people bitter and angry I guess. I’m sorry, but you don’t get that title. Since we’re not in the pit, I won’t list the names of posters that beat you. But there are many. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/331 "2019-04-27T15:59:57Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m sorry, but you don’t get that title. Since we’re not in the pit, I won’t list the names of posters that beat you. But there are many. Missed that. Yeah, going with **Procrustus** on this one. **asahi** is nowhere close to the most unpopular person on the SDMB. Hell, I’d wager I am more unpopular but it is not something I strive for (I’m just a natural 😉 ). ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/332 "2019-04-27T16:18:58Z")
and you are…? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/333 "2019-04-27T22:55:39Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Once again, I will repeat the post of the thread, the only one that really means anything or that matters, distilling this entire exchange right down to its core. > [@asahi](#): > > Here’s the actual process: Mitch McConnell is a brutal partisan, and it’s his senate - his alone. There will be no trial. None. He won’t have it. > [@UnwittingAmericans](#): > > So McConnell won’t allow a trial. > > 1. So what, Trump wouldn’t be convicted > 2. **Good, he can’t be “acquitted.”** > 3. Good, maybe 6 more people will wake up and realize what’s at stake in the election > … So far as I know, asahi’s posts have rebutted the assertion that a trial in the Senate would harm Trump (and that therefore, the House should vote articles of impeachment as soon as possible and send them over to the Senate). I don’t think asahi has asserted that McConnell wouldn’t allow a _vote_. An article by conservative law professor Jonathan Turley quotes Benjamin Franklin on the benefits of an acquittal vote to an accused President: > [@](#): > > The question presented at a Senate trial is not simply removal but **redemption.** This point was made by Benjamin Franklin, who noted that a President’s conduct can be sufficiently “obnoxious” to require a public decision on his continuation as chief executive. The impeachment process, he concluded, is “the best way . . . to provide in the Constitution for the regular punishment of the Executive when his misconduct should deserve it, **and for his honorable acquittal when he should be unjustly accused**.” page 41, [https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1059&context=dlj](https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1059&context=dlj) Asahi will step in to correct the record if I’ve mischaracterized anything; but certainly many believe that McConnell will be all too happy to permit a _vote_. Just not any sort of witness testimony or other trial components that could have the potential to embarrass Trump. (all bolding in this post is mine) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/334 "2019-04-28T00:15:53Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > So far as I know, asahi’s posts have rebutted the assertion that a trial in the Senate would harm Trump (and that therefore, the House should vote articles of impeachment as soon as possible and send them over to the Senate). > > I don’t think asahi has asserted that McConnell wouldn’t allow a _vote_. I am not sure what the point being made here is. The House impeaches. The Senate convicts. Bill Clinton was impeached but not convicted (i.e. the House impeached him but the Senate did not convict him). I am not sure but I cannot imagine McConnell can decide to just not vote on an impeachment sent from the house. The constitution demands a resolution. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/335 "2019-04-28T00:24:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The constitution demands a resolution. Maybe not…wow. I’d say no one would ever try that but I really think McConnell would just ignore an impeachment from the House. Wowsers… ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/336 "2019-04-28T00:31:57Z")
I really can’t see him not allowing a vote. If he can’t secure his caucus for a life and death vote like that, then it’s time to let go of protecting Trump. He’d be nervous about the precedent also - it’s too big a crack in the Constitution to be able to block an impeachment this way. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/337 "2019-04-28T00:47:13Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I don’t think asahi has asserted that McConnell wouldn’t allow a _vote_. Actually, I definitely think that this is a possibility. McConnell may not allow a vote - it would be cleaner than dragging it out for weeks on end. But he may allow a “trial” if he thinks that it would work to his advantage. It really depends on how badly Trump is damaged in the House. If Trump is damaged pretty badly in the House but McConnell is still relatively confident that he can keep the Senate, then there will be no trial. He’ll sweep it under the rug and move on. If he believes that Trump is so radioactive that he might lose the Senate, then I could see him allowing a trial, but right now, I just don’t see it. As long as McConnell is confident of keeping the Senate, he will protect Trump, either with a sham “trial” or no trial at all. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/338 "2019-04-28T00:52:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Maybe not…wow. I’d say no one would ever try that but I really think McConnell would just ignore an impeachment from the House. > > Wowsers… But why is it wowsers? He ignored Sen. Merrick Garland. And while people blame Harry Reid for the nuclear option for SCOTUS justices, Mitch McConnell’s obstructionism is what led to that moment. And now Sen. McConnell benefited from the nuclear option. Here’s what you need to understand about Senator Addison Mitchell McConnell Jr: probably not one senator in the hundreds of senators who have served in the institution over 2-plus centuries have had as much of an impact in changing it as he has. **Mitch McConnell is the most influential Senator in American history** - I absolutely stand by that. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/339 "2019-04-28T00:56:34Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Actually, I definitely think that this is a possibility. McConnell may not allow a vote - it would be cleaner than dragging it out for weeks on end. But he may allow a “trial” if he thinks that it would work to his advantage. McConnell has exactly one choice - allow a trial, or don’t allow a trial. Declining to try House impeachment articles… it’s within his purview to do that, but it would be a nuclear option the likes of which we’ve never witnessed. Every time he breaks norms like this, there’s an increasing risk of revolt. 2020 is coming, Republicans know this election is make-or-break for them, and running a relatively unscathed Pence starts looking better and better. So it’s not like McConnell is going to just say “fuck it, no trial”. There are stakes and he is aware of them. Apart from that, I don’t know how to answer the repeated insistence that a Senate impeachment trial would be a sham circus run by McConnell. It’s a trial where the prosecutors will be House Democrats and the presiding officer will be John Roberts. No doubt the cards are stacked in Trump’s favor, and McConnell will be pulling all the shenanigans he can, but it’s just a different kind of ballgame from (for example) the Kavanaugh hearings. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/340 "2019-04-28T00:56:35Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > But why is it wowsers? He ignored Sen. Merrick Garland. And while people blame Harry Reid for the nuclear option for SCOTUS justices, Mitch McConnell’s obstructionism is what led to that moment. And now Sen. McConnell benefited from the nuclear option. Here’s what you need to understand about Senator Addison Mitchell McConnell Jr: probably not one senator in the hundreds of senators who have served in the institution over 2-plus centuries have had as much of an impact in changing it as he has. **Mitch McConnell is the most influential Senator in American history** - I absolutely stand by that. Stalling or waiting out a Supreme Court nomination is not unprecedented. Ignoring Garland is not like ignoring an impeachment vote. At all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795.md?page=18)