# Impeachment proceedings...will they happen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 19, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795 "2019-04-19T23:08:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/141 "2019-04-23T16:40:58Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Depends when it was taken, and how the question was worded. I linked the politico article above. The poll was taken this past weekend. I don’t see a link there to the poll questions but Morning Consult might have it somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/142 "2019-04-23T16:54:54Z")
The democrats can choose to be unsuccessfully brave or unsuccessful cowards during this time. Which one will they choose? I love my country and do NOT want blatant corruption to become to norm. Again, anything short of impeachment is giving the green light to this sort of behavior in the future… that is until a Democratic president is elected. The Republicans would have impeachment hearings as soon as the president made eye contact with the AG. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/143 "2019-04-23T17:28:46Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Does a poll showing only 34% of people support impeachment proceedings and 48% oppose qualify as “jack shit”? Depends. Are those 48% dead set against impeachment proceedings, or is it just how they feel right now, when they probably still don’t have any idea of what’s in the Mueller Report? Does this poll ask that question? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/144 "2019-04-23T17:40:23Z")
Well, what if we just assume for a second that Morning Consult did an honest poll and fairly assume the vast majority of Americans already know as much as they ever are about the Mueller report. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/145 "2019-04-23T17:47:46Z")
The aricle I linked lists a whole bunch of questions asked and yes, how much they’ve read the Mueller report was one of them. You should probably take a look and save some of your needless rhetorical questions. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/146 "2019-04-23T17:50:50Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > Investigations? > [White House tells official not to comply with Democratic subpoena over security clearances.](https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/22/politics/carl-kline-subpoena/index.html) > > Emphasis mine. > > Trump will continue to obstruct justice until he’s stopped. He will continue to attack, set the narrative, while the Democrats (and America) remain on the defensive. And those on the defensive never win, and cannot win, until they turn to offense. > > Those who are saying that the Senate won’t vote to convict are almost certainly correct\*. > I remain unconvinced, however, that the failure to convict will certainly dishearten the Democrats - if anything, it will strengthen the message that the Senate must change hands, that Trump must be voted out, that there is now no alternative. > I remain unconvinced that it will strengthen Trump’s position, if impeachment succeeds, but the trial doesn’t. Just as the truth of the Clinton impeachment is well known, that it was a political hack job with no basis in justice, so too will the acquittal in the Senate is no less political, with no basis in justice. True, his base will remain loyal - but his base is perhaps 40%, at most, and probably less. The rank and file conservatives would be made more likely to remain home in such circumstances. After all, wasn’t that the point of all the “controversy” surrounding Ms. Clinton in 2016? > I remain unconvinced that it will move the undecided voters toward Trump. They move whichever way the wind blows, to be honest, following the flavor of the moment. I doubt that it’s Trump, anymore; his novelty is gone. > \*I’ll note that I am not inclined to absolutes when predicting future events - including whether the sun will rise in the East. 😃 Dude. Your own cite says that, if he keeps this up, the official ignoring the subpoena will likely be charged with contempt of Congress, meaning he could conceivably be jailed for up to a year. How is this the Democrats being “on the defensive”? Do you think that once articles of impeachment are passed, Trump will _stop_ trying to obstruct the investigation? It’s ridiculous to draw a false dichotomy, as several in this thread have done, between calling for a vote on impeachment next Tuesday and “doing nothing”. If the House formed a committee to determine whether trump should be impeached, what would that committee’s first tasks be? To see the unretracted Mueller report and to have Mueller testify and answer questions about said report…IOW, _exactly what they are currently doing._ ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/147 "2019-04-23T17:54:49Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Depends. > > Are those 48% dead set against impeachment proceedings, or is it just how they feel right now, when they probably still don’t have any idea of what’s in the Mueller Report? Does this poll ask that question? [Here’s the poll](https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000016a-467a-d50f-a96a-ef7b52ba0001). > [@](#): > > How important of a priority should each of the following be for Congress? Beginning > impeachment proceedings to remove President Trump from office > A top priority 29% > An important, but lower priority 12% > Not too important a priority 9% > Should not be done 38% > Don’t know / No opinion 11% So, there’s 38% that say it should not be done. That corresponds almost exactly to the number that support Trump. Except, bizarrely, it’s 1% **lower** than his support. That means that there is 1% of the public that support Trump but answered something other than “should not be done” to the question of impeachment. 41% say it’s an important or top priority. The question is what to do with the 9% who said “not too important a priority”. I’m not sure they belong in the “against” category, since they declined to say it shouldn’t be done. Someone who thinks that impeachment is bound to fail, so they don’t think it’s a priority, but it should probably happen anyway, would be in that category. If you assume that everyone opposed to impeachment said it shouldn’t be done–which seems like a very reasonable assumption to me, almost a restatement of the option–that means that less than half the public oppose impeachment, and that about half the public are lukewarm to excited about the idea. That said, I think this poll doesn’t provide an excellent answer to the question of whether folks support impeachment. A question that would more accurately guide action would be, “Do you support Congress beginning impeachment proceedings to investigate whether Trump should be removed from office?” and allow “strong support,” “somewhat support,” etc. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/148 "2019-04-23T18:00:08Z")
Here’s the actual question the article is relating: As you may know, the first step toward removing a president from office is impeachment. Do you believe Congress should or should not begin impeachment proceedings to remove President Trump from office? Yes, Congress should begin impeachment proceedings 34% No, Congress should not begin impeachment proceedings 48% Don’t know / No opinion 18% ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/149 "2019-04-23T18:00:30Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > … the official ignoring the subpoena will likely be charged with contempt of Congress, meaning he could conceivably be jailed for up to a year. … We could ask Eric Holder about how much jailtime “conceivably” amounted to. Or just read the words of Jay Carney: > [@](#): > > “It is an established principle, dating back to the administration of President Ronald Reagan, that the Justice Department does not pursue prosecution in a contempt case when the President has asserted executive privilege,” Carney told reporters in a gaggle aboard Air Force One. > > “The assertion of executive privilege makes the contempt matter moot, if you will. I mean, I’m not a lawyer, so I’m probably not using quite the precise language. But it is my understanding, and I would refer you to the Justice Department, that dating back to the administration of President Reagan that prosecutions will not take place under this, in this circumstance.” > > A Justice Department spokeswoman echoed Carney’s comments and pointed to a letter that was delivered Thursday to House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) outlining the same argument. > > “Across administrations of both political parties, the longstanding position of the Justice Department has been and remains that we will not prosecute an Executive Branch official under the contempt of Congress statute for withholding subpoenaed documents pursuant to a presidential assertion of executive privilege,” reads the letter, signed by Deputy Attorney General James Cole. [source](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/eric-holder-contempt-charge-prosecution_n_1638420) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/150 "2019-04-23T18:12:31Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Here’s the actual question the article is relating: > > As you may know, the first step toward removing a president from office is > impeachment. Do you believe Congress should or should not begin impeachment > proceedings to remove President Trump from office? > > Yes, Congress should begin impeachment proceedings 34% > No, Congress should not begin impeachment proceedings 48% > Don’t know / No opinion 18% Ah. Fair, I stopped looking over the results when I saw one that looked like the right one. My apologies. In any case, when less than half the public oppose impeachment, and when 18% have no opinion, that’s hardly a slam dunk. If folks learn that beginning impeachment proceedings trigger certain investigative powers, that might change opinions. But even if it doesn’t, I figure Congress needs to do its damn job. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/151 "2019-04-23T18:21:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > We could ask Eric Holder about how much jailtime “conceivably” amounted to. Or just read the words of Jay Carney: > > [source](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/eric-holder-contempt-charge-prosecution_n_1638420) Well, that’s depressing, but it doesn’t alter the basic point that the Democrats are already doing everything they reasonably can to investigate Trump, and Trump is stretching the limits of his authority to the breaking point in order to obstruct said investigations. Bringing articles of impeachment isn’t going to in any way affect his ability to do so. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/152 "2019-04-23T18:30:29Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Here’s the actual question the article is relating: > > As you may know, the first step toward removing a president from office is > impeachment. Do you believe Congress should or should not begin impeachment > proceedings to remove President Trump from office? > > Yes, Congress should begin impeachment proceedings 34% > No, Congress should not begin impeachment proceedings 48% > Don’t know / No opinion 18% So what they **didn’t** ask was, should Congress begin hearings to determine withether the President has committed impeachable offenses? That’s the relevant question. I will also note that the Morning Consult poll from the week before the Mueller Report release had Trump’s favorable-unfavorable at 42-52, and their poll since then has it at 39-57. Their sample sizes were 2205 and 1992, respectively, so their MOEs were down around 2%. IOW (dog bites man!), bad news about a politician hurts his favorable-unfavorable ratings. Hearings to determine whether the President has committed impeachable offenses would be FULL of bad news about Trump, and none of it would be the everyday kind. It would be a Greatest Hits compilation. Seems like it would make people be less positive about Trump, regardless of what they currently think about impeachment. Who knows, it might even change their minds about that. ---
**Author:** ![UnwittingAmericans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d9b06d/32.png) [@UnwittingAmericans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwittingAmericans)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/153 "2019-04-23T19:01:34Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Here’s the actual question the article is relating: > > As you may know, the first step toward removing a president from office is > impeachment. Do you believe Congress should or should not begin impeachment > proceedings to remove President Trump from office? > > Yes, Congress should begin impeachment proceedings 34% > No, Congress should not begin impeachment proceedings 48% > Don’t know / No opinion 18% Read any of the redacted version of the report (Registered Voters): Yes 28% No 65% Don’t Know (lol) 8% I’d agree you gotta get “in favor” comfortably over 50%. Heavy lift, not impossible. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/154 "2019-04-23T22:34:52Z")
> [@UnwittingAmericans](#): > > They need to get the “Trump should be impeached” number much closer to the Trump disapproval number than it appears to be right now. The telltale sign will be when prominent members of the Republican party are in fear for their political life. It’s one thing if Susan Collins says “I’m concerned” about Trump’s rhetoric and deeds, but if suddenly senators like Mitch McConnell and Tom Tillis suddenly retire because they fear losing, then that would be the unmistakable sign that it’s time to get Marine 1 ready. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/155 "2019-04-23T22:47:06Z")
> [@UnwittingAmericans](#): > > Read any of the redacted version of the report (Registered Voters): > Yes 28% > No 65% > Don’t Know (lol) 8% > > I’d agree you gotta get “in favor” comfortably over 50%. Heavy lift, not impossible. Which underscores what I said earlier in this thread (or maybe somewhere else), which is that people are going to get the information they seek out through their own filters. I’m a left partisan, and I happen to believe strongly that my version of the truth is more valid, but I already know from experience: good luck convincing Fox News binge watchers and Russian bot fodder. The voters in the middle don’t know what to think, so they’ll vote (or not) according to what’s in their bank account, or what they perceive as their economic future. When people say “It’s the economy stupid,” it doesn’t mean that voters analyze the Federal Reserve data like Paul Krugman. Economics isn’t just about numbers. It’s about their optimism for the future, and it’s about whether voters believe they’re going to be able to have an income in 6 months. It’s about whether they believe they’ll be just as likely to go out to movies and a dinner date without stressing out over weekly paychecks and bills. If voters believe that things are improving, then it doesn’t matter how much of a shithead Trump is - they already know that anyway. They do not care. In the end, what most of the world outside the realm of the Dope will tell you is this: “Donald Trump can fuck up someone else’s life all he wants, just as long as he doesn’t fuck up mine.” ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/156 "2019-04-24T01:03:01Z")
[Bernie gets it.](https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/23/politics/bernie-sanders-impeachment-cnn-town-hall/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1NnPM8rmhTXQopsMJgy71RiUTptAxmnad4cIMdPEZq1a7T0K6ZMiO-lRs) > [@Bernie Sanders](#): > > If for the next year, year-and-a-half, going right into the heart of the election, all that the Congress is talking about is impeaching Trump and Trump, Trump, Trump, and Mueller, Mueller, Mueller, and we’re not talking about health care, we’re not talking about raising the minimum wage to a living wage, we’re not talking about combating climate change, we’re not talking about sexism and racism and homophobia, and all of the issues that concern ordinary Americans, what I worry about is that works to Trump’s advantage. As the linked article points out, it’s not the position calculated to endear him to his base, but it is the right position. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/157 "2019-04-24T01:08:42Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > [Bernie gets it.](https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/23/politics/bernie-sanders-impeachment-cnn-town-hall/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1NnPM8rmhTXQopsMJgy71RiUTptAxmnad4cIMdPEZq1a7T0K6ZMiO-lRs) > > As the linked article points out, it’s not the position calculated to endear him to his base, but it is the right position. I completely agree, and as someone who’s been skeptical of Bernie over the years, I have to say that I think he gets it. I think he’s spot on accurate here. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/158 "2019-04-24T01:26:53Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > So what they **didn’t** ask was, should Congress begin hearings to determine withether the President has committed impeachable offenses? > > That’s the relevant question. Oh, the important question of whether Congress should maybe start subpoenaing Trump staff and his financial records? Maybe run a full investigation or two? That stuff they’re already doing? The question of this thread is whether starting impeachment proceedings would be a good idea. Unless you get a lot more of the public on board the answer is obviously no. Continuing to snap at Trump’s heels is also obviously a decent way to get more dirt and sway public opinion. But ignoring the obvious mood of the country against impeachment is not Congress’ job. Don’t tell me they have a duty to follow your sense of justice. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/159 "2019-04-24T01:40:38Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > [Bernie gets it.](https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/23/politics/bernie-sanders-impeachment-cnn-town-hall/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1NnPM8rmhTXQopsMJgy71RiUTptAxmnad4cIMdPEZq1a7T0K6ZMiO-lRs) > > As the linked article points out, it’s not the position calculated to endear him to his base, but it is the right position. …it absolutely endears him to his base. You support his position, do you not? This is the same Bernie who said this: > [@Bernie](#): > > “There are people who are very big into diversity but whose views end up being not particularly sympathetic to working people, whether they’re white or black or Latino,” he said. “My main belief is that we need to bring together a coalition of people—of black and white and Latino and Asian-American and Native-American—around a progressive agenda which is prepared to take on an extraordinarily powerful ruling class in this country. That is my view. Many of my opponents do not hold that view, and they think that all that we need is people who are candidates who are black or white, who are black or Latino or woman or gay, regardless of what they stand for, that the end result is diversity.” > **[The Unfinished Business of Bernie Sanders](https://www.gq.com/story/bernie-sanders-unfinished-business)** > > He went from the rumpled bit player of the progressive movement to a legit presidential candidate and liberal kingmaker. But now that Sanders wields such enormous power in Democratic politics, the question is, what’s he going to do with it? We’ve been waiting for Bernie to start talking about " sexism and racism and homophobia." And we are still waiting. He just doesn’t appear to understand “what diversity is all about” and he will probably never understand. Talking about impeachment is no fucking excuse for not talking about other issues. What a fucking joke. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795/160 "2019-04-24T01:58:07Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Talking about impeachment is no fucking excuse for not talking about other issues. What a fucking joke. Your righteousness is the joke. Unless you have some plan for completely changing how news coverage happens, impeachment will flood out other issues. That’s frigging reality, not a joke. Grow up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impeachment-proceedings-will-they-happen/832795.md?page=9)