# Impending government seizure of retirement account money? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 4, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331 "2013-02-04T19:46:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/1 "2013-02-04T19:46:57Z")
Overheard at the office, any truth to this one? Supposedly, at some point in the recent past at least 5 European countries seized their citizens’ privately-held retirement accounts, ie. the equivalent of US 401ks and IRAs. They reportedly gave IOUs of doubtful value in exchange for the money. Also, a lot of blahblahblah about how this is going to happen any time now in the US. It sounds far fetched, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/2 "2013-02-04T19:55:35Z")
I just don’t see how this would be legal an any way shape or form in the US. But then again, who would have toght that confiscationf people’s gold would have been legal before 1933. I think the optimum way to answer this question would be for our doper lawyers to conceive of a way SCOTUS (because you know that’s where it will end up) could uphold such a law. My 2 cents (and IANAL): Have the money seized by the IRS because apparently that makes it a tax and therefore Constitutional (thank you CJ Roberts for that legal gem) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/3 "2013-02-04T20:34:02Z")
[Here](http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/The-Adam-Smith-Institute-Blog/2011/0102/European-nations-begin-seizing-private-pensions) is something that might be what the OP heard. Note that although it’s at the Christian Science Monitor website, it’s a blog posting and I don’t know how factual it is. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/4 "2013-02-04T21:00:43Z")
As Snopes calls it - prime examples of InBoxer Rebellion rumors. No European connection but [here](http://www.snopes.com/politics/pelosi/windfall.asp) are two more - this story has legs - that Snopes article goes back to 2006 and here is another reference from [2008](http://www.factcheck.org/2008/11/iras-401ks-and-you/)! ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/5 "2013-02-04T21:07:43Z")
I’m not sure what the (false) windfall profits tax rumor has to do with it, but it appears that there is some conflation of what may or may not have happened in Europe with the apparently false statements of the John Locke Foundation. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/6 "2013-02-04T21:12:04Z")
This story has been around since Obama took office, and it’s just kooky nonsense as you would expect. The nugget of truth that some people are going off the deep end with is some discussions and interest in allowing people to trade certain pension plans that pay out lump sums for a new government-backed plan that would pay out an annuity: [link.](http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/newsroom/fslifetimeincomeoptions.html) There has also been discussion of limiting the tax deductions for some retirement accounts: [link.](http://www.factcheck.org/2008/11/iras-401ks-and-you/) But really, the “Obama seizing your 401(k)” is made out of whole cloth. Google those terms and you will find that not one conspiracy theory website that reports on this has any links to any proof of what they’re alleging. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/7 "2013-02-04T21:30:00Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I just don’t see how this would be legal an any way shape or form in the US. But then again, who would have toght that confiscationf people’s gold would have been legal before 1933. The US government did not confiscate gold in 1933 at least not as that word is commonly used. It did make the hoarding\* of gold illegal and required you to sell your gold back to the Treasury at $20.67 an ounce which had been the fixed price of gold for some time. Recall we were on the gold standard back then where twenty $1 bills could always be swapped for a $20 gold piece (a double eagle). \*basically ownership other than for commercial use, in jewelry, or in coin collections. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/8 "2013-02-04T22:33:14Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > The US government did not confiscate gold in 1933 at least not as that word is commonly used. It did make the hoarding\* of gold illegal and required you to sell your gold back to the Treasury at $20.67 an ounce which had been the fixed price of gold for some time. Recall we were on the gold standard back then where twenty $1 bills could always be swapped for a $20 gold piece (a double eagle). > \*basically ownership other than for commercial use, in jewelry, or in coin collections. But pertanant to the OP, the gold was basically seized and replaced with IOUs (Federal Reserve Notes). ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/9 "2013-02-04T22:35:58Z")
The article linked seems to confuse “savings plans” and “pension plans”. I infer from the wording that government plan, for example for Hungary, is similar to Social Security; and the proposal is that private plans that provided for an exemption from the government plan should be “collected” back into the government plan. It would be more like the government thinking they should take over the Teamsters or Teachers Union pension fund than the government taking your 401K. (IIRC there are certain plans that exempt the participants from SOcial Security?) As for the fund - the federal government has been borrowing from the assets of Social Security for ages, and likely getting a sweeter deal than in the real marketplace. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/10 "2013-02-04T22:38:44Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > This story has been around since Obama took office, and it’s just kooky nonsense as you would expect. The nugget of truth that some people are going off the deep end with is some discussions and interest in allowing people to trade certain pension plans that pay out lump sums for a new government-backed plan that would pay out an annuity: [link.](http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/newsroom/fslifetimeincomeoptions.html) They have modified the rules for these to make it more advantageous for companies to offer lump sums for pensions. Ford has done this, and I converted my old Lucent pension into a lump sum with which I bought a more flexible annuity. You are mot forced to take the lump sum, and my financial planner at least thought it was a good deal. The money btw is considered 401K-like money, so if you are under 58 1/2 you can’t touch it without incurring a penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/11 "2013-02-04T23:16:54Z")
Sounds like a lot of self-serving ignorance and unwarranted assumptions about how things work in other countries. Why am I not surprised? Thanks guys. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/12 "2013-02-04T23:23:46Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > But pertanant to the OP, the gold was basically seized and replaced with IOUs (Federal Reserve Notes). So by “IOU” you mean “cash”? ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/13 "2013-02-05T00:18:13Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > But pertanant to the OP, the gold was basically seized and replaced with IOUs (Federal Reserve Notes). > [@DrCube](#): > > So by “IOU” you mean “cash”? Not only was it cash, it wasn’t necessarily Federal Reserve Notes. It could have been Silver Certificates. Even if it were a Federal Reserve Note, it could have been easily exchanged for a Silver Certificate or a Silver dollar at any bank. Silver dollars/ certificates always traded at par with Federal Reserve Notes. So the exchange was no worse than gold for silver. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/14 "2013-02-05T01:42:12Z")
looks like Obama is unleashing his minions to start to seize a large jackpot of money…all under the guise of “helping Americans manage their retirements” of course. Because Obama and his lame brain economic policies have turned a faltering economy into a full scale depression with un and under employment at 16%. It can’t happen? Just a few years ago it would considered ridiculous that governments would regulate what you could eat, drink, smoke, your lightbulbs,etc. Americans have a lot of money saved up and even for a liberal Obama is full of greed and have a frightening large number of followers who think he is Christ. Let’s see how long it takes for the Feds require you to invest a certain amount in government bonds, for safety of course. [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-18/retirement-savings-accounts-draw-u-s-consumer-bureau-attention.html](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-18/retirement-savings-accounts-draw-u-s-consumer-bureau-attention.html) ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/15 "2013-02-05T01:53:58Z")
:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/16 "2013-02-05T14:19:39Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > looks like Obama is unleashing his minions to start to seize a large jackpot of money…all under the guise of “helping Americans manage their retirements” of course. Because Obama and his lame brain economic policies have turned a faltering economy into a full scale depression with un and under employment at 16%. It can’t happen? Just a few years ago it would considered ridiculous that governments would regulate what you could eat, drink, smoke, your lightbulbs,etc. Americans have a lot of money saved up and even for a liberal Obama is full of greed and have a frightening large number of followers who think he is Christ. Let’s see how long it takes for the Feds require you to invest a certain amount in government bonds, for safety of course. > > [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-18/retirement-savings-accounts-draw-u-s-consumer-bureau-attention.html](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-18/retirement-savings-accounts-draw-u-s-consumer-bureau-attention.html) **Moderator Warning** **Jim’s Son** , political jabs are not permitted in GQ, which you should be well aware of since you’ve been warned for this before. Do not do this again. Colibri General Questions Moderator Note to other posters: Please do not respond to this post in this thread; take it to another forum if you wish to do so. ---
**Author:** ![FrankJBN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@FrankJBN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrankJBN)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/17 "2013-02-05T15:36:59Z")
“Supposedly, at some point in the recent past at least 5 European countries seized their citizens’ privately-held retirement accounts” Wow, I’m surprised this wasn’t deemed newsworthy. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/18 "2013-02-05T16:40:09Z")
> [@FrankJBN](#): > > Wow, I’m surprised this wasn’t deemed newsworthy. If the genial blowhards I work with confined their conversation to stuff in the news, they’d talk about sports 24/7. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/19 "2013-02-05T18:08:36Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > looks like Obama is unleashing his minions to… “helping Americans manage their retirements” of course… > > [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-18/retirement-savings-accounts-draw-u-s-consumer-bureau-attention.html](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-18/retirement-savings-accounts-draw-u-s-consumer-bureau-attention.html) Huh??? The article says the government agency mentioned wants to put in place rules and regulations to manage the savings accounts and conversion to retirement payouts. Obviously this is a “grab by minions” since let on their own, the people in the banking nad investment industry who brought us the mortgage fiasco and housing crash can be relied on to properly manage IRA’s unregulated to the same great results as they achieved for customers all over the world in 2008. Lack of regulation worked so well then. Seriously, when you’re talking about people’s life savings, maybe rules against ripping them off are a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331/20 "2013-02-06T02:42:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Just a few years ago it would considered ridiculous that governments would regulate what you could eat If by “a few years ago” you mean [1906.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_food_and_drug_act) Curse that socialist megalomaniac Teddy Roosevelt! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-government-seizure-of-retirement-account-money/649331.md?page=2)