# Impending US Civil War? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169 "2009-12-14T01:53:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dragoncat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6a8cbe/32.png) [@dragoncat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dragoncat)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/1 "2009-12-14T01:53:18Z")
Hello all, a friend forwarded me some links to articles claiming that the government in the USA is building up and training its troops to quell domestic dissent that is expected in the next few months. [this is one of them](http://www.eutimes.net/2009/12/us-forces-plan-direct-action-against-american-citizens/) [this is the other one](http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2009/cbarchive_20091211.html) I tend not to believe this kind of thing (read: conspiracy theory), but wondered if anyone had heard anything about this from a trusted source. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/2 "2009-12-14T01:57:15Z")
I imagine if a white supremacist actually managed to kill President Obama the aftermath would look somewhat civil warish. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/3 "2009-12-14T02:10:54Z")
It occurs to me that one way for the Obama administration to stimulate consumer spending is to let leak a few choice details like “U.S. gov’t order 50 million body bags, civilian sized” and “Chinese military observers invited to Fort Dix”. Overnight, sales of ammunition, camping gear, and canned goods skyrocket, stabilizing the economy. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/4 "2009-12-14T02:36:30Z")
I’m interested in what might happen if a movement starts for an Article 5 constitutional amendment, and Congress looks like it would refuse to initiate the required constitutional convention. That might turn out to be a sticky situation. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/5 "2009-12-14T02:46:03Z")
_The European Union Times_ and _Chuck Baldwin Live_ are racist publications. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/6 "2009-12-14T02:54:08Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > I imagine if a white supremacist actually managed to kill President Obama the aftermath would look somewhat civil warish. Nah . . . There would be rioting, that’s all. In the 1960s America never came close to civil war (though it seemed to many at the time they were already in one). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/7 "2009-12-14T02:59:23Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > _The European Union Times_ and _Chuck Baldwin Live_ are racist publications. Looking at its [welcome page,](http://www.eutimes.net/) yes, the _European Union Times_ does appear to be a racist publication. As for [Chuck Baldwin,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Baldwin) there seems no room for doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/8 "2009-12-14T03:07:47Z")
> [@dragoncat](#): > > I tend not to believe this kind of thing (read: conspiracy theory), but wondered if anyone had heard anything about this from a trusted source. I got an email about this the other day. That’s a trusted source, right? It said, “Pass this along to everyone you know!!!” so it must be true. Funny how the usual news services seem to ignore it. They must be in on the conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/9 "2009-12-14T03:08:16Z")
> **[The Wall Street Journal - Breaking News, Business, Financial & Economic...](https://www.wsj.com/)** > > Breaking news and analysis from the U.S. and around the world at WSJ.com. Politics, Economics, Markets, Life & Arts, and in-depth reporting. Well, as everyone knows, it has been predicted by a famed Russian academic that the US will break up into six countries in 2010 or thereabouts. He’s clearly right. Gonna happen any minute now. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/10 "2009-12-14T03:09:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Nah . . . There would be rioting, that’s all. In the 1960s America never came close to civil war (though it seemed to many at the time they were already in one). I’m not so sure: such an event (god forbid) in and of itself might inspire riots, but also might set off a radical reaction at the federal level (Homeland Security: The Sequel) that some states couldn’t accept. Anything that looks like a “civil war” wouldn’t be a matter of individuals taking up guns, Ruby Ridge style, but more like entire states banding together to declare their opposition to federal policies. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/11 "2009-12-14T03:22:17Z")
The nice thing about nutjobbery is that it’s non-partisan. Here’s a 2004 thread about [George W. Bush suspending the general election](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=241963&highlight=clinton+martial). Here’s a 2003 thread about Bush’s plans for a [pre-emptive nuclear attack against Iraq.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=158955&highlight=clinton+martial) Unfortunately, the search function isn’t showing anything earlier than 2003 right now, or I’d link you to some threads about Bill Clinton declaring martial law. Instead I’ll have to give you this 1993 article that says [Clinton would practice on Puerto Rico](http://www.cosmicchannelings.com/blog/is-puerto-rico-a-test-for-martial-law-in-us/29)before doing it in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/12 "2009-12-14T03:25:02Z")
From the second article: > [@](#): > > It is my observation that Washington politicians and bureaucrats are the most paranoid people on the planet. Write your own punch line. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/13 "2009-12-14T03:25:28Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html) > Well, as everyone knows, it has been predicted by a famed Russian academic that the US will break up into six countries in 2010 or thereabouts. > > He’s clearly right. Gonna happen any minute now. Russia will break up before the US does. > [@Koxinga](#): > > I’m not so sure: such an event (god forbid) in and of itself might inspire riots, but also might set off a radical reaction at the federal level (Homeland Security: The Sequel) that some states couldn’t accept. Anything that looks like a “civil war” wouldn’t be a matter of individuals taking up guns, Ruby Ridge style, but more like entire states banding together to declare their opposition to federal policies. Not really. The Obama adminstration will be too timid to too anything radically authoritarian security-wise. We didn’t have a civil war during the Great Depression and we won’t have one this time around either. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/14 "2009-12-14T03:34:39Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Not really. The Obama adminstration will be too timid to too anything radically authoritarian security-wise. Well, that’s the point of this particular sub-plot: it wouldn’t be the Obama administration, it’d be a (presumably shell-shocked) incoming _Biden_ administration, with little enough gumption to face down a Congress that’s baying for blood. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/15 "2009-12-14T03:36:52Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Well, that’s the point of this particular sub-plot: it wouldn’t be the Obama administration, it’d be a (presumably shell-shocked) incoming _Biden_ administration, facing a Congress that’s baying for blood. The US has suspended much civil rights before during the Civil War, and the World Wars yet that didn’t provoke mass riots. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/16 "2009-12-14T03:40:06Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > The US has suspended much civil rights before during the Civil War, and the World Wars yet that didn’t provoke mass riots. Neither did any asteroids plummet into the Great Lakes at that time. A point, do you have one? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/17 "2009-12-14T03:43:15Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Neither did any asteroids plummet into the Great Lakes at that time. A point, do you have one? The last four presidential assassinations which happened in times far more primitive and prone to violence than our own. If authoritarian measures than and during the wars were not that drastic why would this situation if (God forbid) happens be any different? ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/18 "2009-12-14T03:50:30Z")
Uh, your friend is an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/19 "2009-12-14T03:55:16Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > The last four presidential assassinations which happened in times far more primitive and prone to violence than our own. If authoritarian measures than and during the wars were not that drastic why would this situation if (God forbid) happens be any different? Well, the concept of “domestic terrorism” wasn’t nearly as big a deal back then: the time we’re living in now has the “benefit” of both 60s civil unrest and 9/11 within living memory, as well as a much-weakened respect for the Constitution and a politically poisonous atmosphere in general. I’m not saying it’s Obama/Biden and the Democrats who are uniquely prone to authoritarian overreaction: if it were Bush/Cheney and the Republicans in power, were such a Bad Thing to happen, I’d probably be equally worried in this kind of environment. And again, it’s not the (perceived) authoritarian measures in and of themselves, but the reaction of the states _against_ those measures, that I think could set off a constitutional crisis at least. I don’t think any of this is _likely_, but if the OP is asking how a civil war could happen, I think this might be one of the more likely routes. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/20 "2009-12-14T03:55:53Z")
I could imagine there being a war against the people who think “educated” is an insult and those who don’t. There’d have to be a pretty big spark to light that fire, though, I don’t think an assassinated Obama would do it. That would just send us into despair, not righteous anger. Since there’s only been one US civil war, it’s hard to extract much data (so far, 100% of civil wars have been about slavery), but I don’t know if one would even be possible now. The country was smaller and didn’t have the complex and domineering military system we have now. Then it was just farmers with guns vs farmers with guns. A civil war now would be farmers with guns vs the National Guard, Army, Marines, and Air Force (the Navy could sit this one out). This is why you don’t see many civil wars in military-industrialized countries. If anything, you see military coups. How would you get the entire military to turn against the rest of the government in the US? I suppose if you had one president that was a real gung-ho military man and everybody with a uniform loved him, and then after him was a hippy-dippy liberal president who wanted to dismantle our entire military or something, with a decent helping of Limbaugh-fueled anti-government sentiments and that ex-president getting vocal in public opposition of the current president, he could possibly get some of the top US commanders to break from the pentagon and go (ahem) rogue. Basically, rebels vs the empire. Edit: To reiterate my last point, consider simply the use of the phrase, “I want my country back” and the type of people prone to saying it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169.md?page=2)