# Impending US Civil War? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169 "2009-12-14T01:53:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/21 "2009-12-14T03:58:57Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > I suppose if you had one president that was a real gung-ho military man and everybody with a uniform loved him, and then after him was a hippy-dippy liberal president who wanted to dismantle our entire military or something, with a decent helping of Limbaugh-fueled anti-government sentiments and that ex-president getting vocal in public opposition of the current president, he could possibly get some of the top US commanders to break from the pentagon and go (ahem) rogue. Don’t forget that every state has its own army, and the majority Federal domestic military assets are based within the states’ territories . . . ---
**Author:** ![AdmiralCrunch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@AdmiralCrunch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AdmiralCrunch)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/22 "2009-12-14T04:10:37Z")
I dunno, when I was young it seemed like the country was just as divided and passionate as now, if not more. Then Gillette puts a damn battery into a safety razor and makes all the blood spilled over the razor wars seem silly. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/23 "2009-12-14T04:26:44Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I got an email about this the other day. That’s a trusted source, right? Former Kansas State Trooper Greg Everson isn’t a trusted source? It even says he “cited verifiable information confirmed by an active duty US Air Force Colonel, three chiefs of Police, a local Sheriff, State Troopers in 3 neighboring Midwest states and a Federal agent he has known for twenty years.” Hell, if that isn’t proof of the gov’ment is planning to kill 50 milliion gun owners using data collected by Census workers to program military targeting computers to coincide with an invasion by the Chinese from the west and Mexico from the south, I don’t know what is! If that isn’t enough to trust, I checked the [EU Times](http://www.eutimes.net/about/) about page, it looks like they’ve been providing such reliable information since ummm… October. This year. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/24 "2009-12-14T04:26:47Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > I could imagine there being a war against the people who think “educated” is an insult and those who don’t. . I can imagine a war between bears and ninjas, but that don’t make it likely. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/25 "2009-12-14T04:30:40Z")
From the first of the linked articles: [Quote=wack job No. 1] “The American people have reached the point of total saturation due to the failure of Government to protect its borders, corruption and theft.” Everson expects that such a response has been projected by US Government computer models and believes NORTHCOM, DHS and state and local authorities will begin implementation of Operation Garden Plot and Martial Law within 45-60 days. “Civil war is precisely what this administration wants to happen,” said Everson. “And before Americans can organize themselves they will be destroyed by their own military.” [/Quote] Well. that’s pretty specific, at least as far as timing goes. The article is datelined 11 December; 45-60 days puts launch of this notional civil war around the end of January 2010. What precipitating factor is there that would result in ‘computer models’ predicting a general insurrection in the dead of winter? Aside from some hopelessly vague comment about ‘theft’ by the federal reserve, not a thng, near as I can see. So, if we get to Easter and the revolution has not yet been televised, can we agree the articles are pretty much bullshit from beginning to end? Now, as long as we’re on the subject, I know it’s kind of a quaint notion, but both the linked articles seem to come pretty close to sedition. Am I in error on this? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/26 "2009-12-14T04:32:24Z")
Yes but this article was posted by Europe. And Europe’s always been straight with me. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/27 "2009-12-14T04:40:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes but this article was posted by Europe. And Europe’s always been straight with me. Yes, well, I guess the title “EU Times” should give me a clue as to where it’s located, eh? In my defence, I’m a bit tired. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/28 "2009-12-14T06:56:28Z")
I’d have no problem with an article being posted by Pierre Dubois or Gunther Schmidt or Salvatore Rossi. But “Posted by Europe”? Are we supposed to feel that an entire continent collaborated on writing this article? ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/29 "2009-12-14T08:16:44Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Yes, well, I guess the title “EU Times” should give me a clue as to where it’s located, eh? Yep… Florida. 🙂 A whois domain lookup for [eutimes.net](http://eutimes.net): ```auto Registrant: Jessica Nachtman 16435 E. Stallion Dr. Loxahatchee, FL 33470 US Domain name: EUTIMES.NET Administrative Contact: Nachtman, Jessica 16435 E. Stallion Dr. Loxahatchee, FL 33470 US +1.5617182424 Technical Contact: Nachtman, Jessica 16435 E. Stallion Dr. Loxahatchee, FL 33470 US +1.5617182424 ``` So… I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest this particular bit of crazy doesn’t reflect the overall opinion of Europe, but rather one Jessica Nachtman of Loxahatchee, FL… who can apparently be found on Twitter under the name “AlabasterGirl”, with a bio that reads: “White Nationalist with Libratarian views. Proud Mother & wife. 4th Generation Floridian. Aspiring Priestess of Freyja.” ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/30 "2009-12-14T08:22:26Z")
And what is a “Libratarian”? A liberal librarian? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/31 "2009-12-14T08:45:54Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > And what is a “Libratarian”? A liberal librarian? 🙂 A librarian who thinks that books should shelve themselves and not insist that valuable taxpayer dollars go to paying librarians to shelve them. ---
**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/32 "2009-12-14T08:58:18Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > And what is a “Libratarian”? A liberal librarian? 🙂 A person who organizes women’s undergarments according to the Dewey Decimal system of course. Sheesh, kids these days. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/33 "2009-12-14T09:28:01Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > And what is a “Libratarian”? A liberal librarian? 🙂 A person who believes rights and freedoms should be tied to one’s Zodiac sign. I, for one, believe Aquarians should have unlimited freedom of speech, but Cancers should get the right to drive over the speed limit. Leos, those only get the right to remain silent. Serves those assholes right. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/34 "2009-12-14T12:35:38Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > I could imagine there being a war against the people who think “educated” is an insult and those who don’t. There’d have to be a pretty big spark to light that fire, though, I don’t think an assassinated Obama would do it. That would just send us into despair, not righteous anger. > > Since there’s only been one US civil war, it’s hard to extract much data (so far, 100% of civil wars have been about slavery), but I don’t know if one would even be possible now. The country was smaller and didn’t have the complex and domineering military system we have now. Then it was just farmers with guns vs farmers with guns. A civil war now would be farmers with guns vs the National Guard, Army, Marines, and Air Force (the Navy could sit this one out). > > This is why you don’t see many civil wars in military-industrialized countries. If anything, you see military coups. How would you get the entire military to turn against the rest of the government in the US? > > I suppose if you had one president that was a real gung-ho military man and everybody with a uniform loved him, and then after him was a hippy-dippy liberal president who wanted to dismantle our entire military or something, with a decent helping of Limbaugh-fueled anti-government sentiments and that ex-president getting vocal in public opposition of the current president, he could possibly get some of the top US commanders to break from the pentagon and go (ahem) rogue. > > Basically, rebels vs the empire. > > Edit: To reiterate my last point, consider simply the use of the phrase, “I want my country back” and the type of people prone to saying it. What part of that sentiment can’t you comprehend? I take it you are among the “educated” and those people aren’t? Weird indeed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/35 "2009-12-14T14:17:39Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > [http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html) > Well, as everyone knows, it has been predicted by a famed Russian academic that the US will break up into six countries in 2010 or thereabouts. In fact, I think there has already been a GD thread about that prediction. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/36 "2009-12-14T14:30:01Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > What part of that sentiment can’t you comprehend? The “back” makes no sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/37 "2009-12-14T14:31:41Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > So… I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest this particular bit of crazy doesn’t reflect the overall opinion of Europe, but rather one Jessica Nachtman of Loxahatchee, FL… who can apparently be found on Twitter under the name “AlabasterGirl”, with a bio that reads: “White Nationalist with Libratarian views. Proud Mother & wife. 4th Generation Floridian. Aspiring Priestess of Freyja.” For some reason, a lot of White Nationalists these days are into Norse neopaganism. Probably because you can’t get much whiter than that . . . maybe also because Norse mythology is so violent and grim. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/38 "2009-12-14T14:43:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The “back” makes no sense at all. Sure it does. You could argue that the “my” doesn’t make any sense though. The point is it’s simply a phrase every bit as meaningful as “Change we can believe in”. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/39 "2009-12-14T14:47:54Z")
Americans are too fat, lazy and intellectually dumbed-down to conduct a revolution. Revolutions take work. Any country that can become obsessed for weeks over Tiger Woods’ sex life and people like Lindsey Lohan could never muster the energy for a revolution. Besides, if a revolution did start, it would peter out as soon as the **Dancing With The Stars** broadcast aired. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169/40 "2009-12-14T15:00:27Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes but this article was posted by Europe. And Europe’s always been straight with me. However, I shall never forgive them for _The Final Countdown_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/impending-us-civil-war/521169.md?page=3)