Implications of Drone use in U.S. Airspace

Actually fleets of drones in the American sky would be a concern, and not just from a privacy standpoint.

Rather, as I understand it while the drones used by the US military can be remotely piloted, in most applications they are programmed with a predetermined flight path before takeoff and follow it no matter what.
They don’t veer away from nothing.

They also don’t show up on radar (though I suppose civilian ones could be equipped with transponders) and they don’t talk on the radio either. This is an issue: there have already been a few incidents of mid-air collisions and near misses in Afghanistan, where the military should be paying close attention to this and coordinating flight paths.

Now picture the same thing in a sky full of airliners, helicopters and private planes going every which way, none of which will be aware of how many drones are out today, where they are and where they’re going…

Assuming the drone we’re referring to the MQ-1 Predator, it’s flight course can certainly be rerouted. While deemed “unmanned” each drone is actually manned by two operators on the ground, one being the sensor operator the other being a rated pilot. Between the two they are certainly completely in control of its flight route mid-flight.

As far as it not showing up on radar, I’d have to disagree. While it is difficult to gauge the size of the Predator from images (due to it’s lack of cockpit), it’s about the size of an F-16. A little more slender, but it is by no means stealth. Heck, even an F-22 (a plane coated with radar absorbing material, which the Predator does not have) while maneuvering appears on radar.

Regarding the use of drones within the US, as many have said, I do not see the issue. The drones, while surely unique, do not offer any new reconnaissance capabilities. If the private sector or the government really wanted to spy on you, they could do it, drones or no drones.

It does occur to me that one problem is that drones unlike human officers are potentially hackable (especially since we are probably talking about lowest-bidder technology here). You could have everything from voyeurs using them to spy to “pranksters” causing them to crash.

And I do think that it wouldn’t be long before some were armed, although probably with something less powerful than a Hellfire.

To compare the likelihood or complexity of a drone being hacked to say, a PC being hacked is silly. The networks used by the military are extremely sophisticated and would require cyber threats backed by another nation’s government to hack into them. Hacking is certainly a legitimate concern though, however it isn’t limited to drones. Theoretically an F-22 or F-35 could also be hacked for they are both fly-by-wire and require the computer to operate.

Assuming drones would enter the civilian sector, the FAA would certainly have to require certain levels of network protection. But, regulated as such I suppose I would not have a problem with corporations using them. What purpose they would have for them (except for say news reporting as someone said) I cannot imagine though. Price is certainly not an issue however, with a Predator drone costing around $7 Million.

If drones entered US service, I’d expect them to be for surveillance, rather than for defense. Instead of needing to carry heavy ordinance, they’d need a battery of cameras, and possibly microphones. Surely this would drop their price tag and size drastically.

Any bets on how long it will take for passenger drones to become available for normal, civil use?

I think the main difference between helicopters and drones is you can make drones much much smaller and quieter. I’d actually like to see something like this in the hands of citizens as a check against law enforcement abuse.

Passenger airplanes already have sophisticated autopilot. People just won’t get on flights without pilots. Even trains have drivers and they are on a fixed track on the ground.

You’d think so, but currently the video feeds broadcast by military drones are 100% unencrypted. There’s some sound reasoning behind that design decision, and some sound one behind the current decision to slightly tweak that policy.

Like I said, most drones can be remotely manned. But in practice, they often aren’t, for any number of reasons. And I’ve e-spoken with quite a few USAF pilots who are legit scared of the Global Hawk, which cannot AFAIK.

ETA: oh and re: radar, it’s not that drones are stealthy per se. It’s that civilian radars and radar operators filter out a lot of data just so they don’t direct flights of geese for landing. That said, I agree it’s a minor problem if you fit the drones with active transponders, but then again that makes them easier for third parties to track and/or hack into.

Blue Thunder notwithstanding, police choppers aren’t armed are they ?

Yes, I think it’s feasible. We already see many instances cameras installed in convenience sores, ATM’s, and parking lots being used to try to get the public to help police identity some ne’er-do-well. Cameras are set up at highway “hot spots” for traffic news. We are already close to what London has, I think.

What I think would be politically unsupportable would be camera coverage extending into primarily “back street” residential areas (instead of buisness/public areas).

Again, the cheaper cost of drones (vs. choppers) doesn’t concern me. Hand held cameras, or cameras mounted on ground vehicles is not a new technology. If the police wanted to spy on me, lack of drones ain’t gonna stop them, nor do I think availability of drones will make the police more inclined to spy on me.

I think we’re talking past each other, mlees.

The problem comes when someone enevitably decides that they should be left on all the time, “and think of all the crime we would stop then!”

Then they start tracking things that aren’t crimes, but could become one.

Then they start tracking things that are not crimes.

In Iowa, the plan is to replace 21 F-16s of the IANG 132nd Fighter Wing with drones. Presumably, the money would come from the funds already supporting those planes. The IANG is not happy with the plan.

Um, they have been hacked.The signals have been intercepted, and their computers have also been infected at least once with a keylogger virus. And you are assuming that the cops will get what the military has and not some cheaper knockoff version.

Not nearly as easily since they are fly by wire, as opposed to wireless. They aren’t transmitting and receiving their control signals over the air. Quite possibly there are no connections to the system that can be used remotely, which means the only way to hack one would be to somehow get a trojan physically loaded into the plane. Much harder to pull off than just intercepting a signal.

Spying on people, or each other. Stealing industrial secrets comes to mind, or blackmail. “Tell us X, or your wife gets these pictures of you with Ms Smith.” And probably a lot of plain old voyeurism. There’s plenty of unscrupulous corporations & people, and it’s only logical that they’d use such technology, well, unscrupulously.

:frowning: Well, I apologise if I am suffering from poor reading comprehension again. Sometimes that happens.

While the use of drones for surveillance is slightly disconcerting, arming them with even non-lethal weapons is something I personally wouldn’t like to see happen. Or maybe since they’re just like helicopters I should have no worries. Anyway, one police department in Texas is considering such an approach.