# Implications of John Kerry Speech **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 29, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855 "2016-12-29T18:30:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/1 "2016-12-29T18:30:56Z")
Not being a particularly astute political observer I admit I might be over thinking this but this recent speech and especially the timing of the speech might be raising some serious national security concerns. What are Obama’s plans after the election. Is he setting himself up for his next move with this speech? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/2 "2016-12-29T18:39:02Z")
What speech? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/3 "2016-12-29T18:41:56Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > What speech? The speech he gave on why the United States failed to vote against a U.N. resolution against Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/4 "2016-12-29T18:51:05Z")
Please flesh out your questions in the OP. What national security concerns? Are you worried that Israel going to attack us for not vetoing the resolution? What do Obama’s future plans have to do with anything? Do you think he’s going to join Hezbollah? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/5 "2016-12-29T19:02:18Z")
Kerry pointed out Netanyahu opposes the two-state solution - as Netanyahu has said many times, and Kerry said this: > [@](#): > > “If the choice is one state, Israel can either be Jewish or democratic,” Mr Kerry said. “It cannot be both.” ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/6 "2016-12-29T19:36:03Z")
So far, at least, this is one of the murkiest threads I’ve read in a while. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/7 "2016-12-29T19:40:06Z")
IMO, everything that Kerry (and Obama) are saying is clearly correct (unless I’ve missed something). Problem is that what the Israelis are saying is also correct. You can say things that are completely correct, but which can have negative consequences. (This is a big part of what diplomacy is about.) And a big part of that is how the various players take what you’re saying and react to it. In this case, as in many others, the core problem would be in what is said versus what’s not said, and what the focus is on versus what it’s not. Meaning, if the focus is on promoting peace by pressuring Israel to change their actions versus promoting peace by pressuring both sides to do this. But it’s also magnified by the pre-existing dynamic. The problem is that the Palestinians feel they have the UN and much of the world at their back, and this emboldens them to take a harder line than they might otherwise take. The US being a strong Israel supporter somewhat levels the field, and this would have the impact of tempering Palestinian expectations and push them to be more conciliatory than they might otherwise be. But if the US is joining the anti-Israel side - in the sense of focusing on Israeli actions as the underlying cause of the issue versus Palestinian ones - then this would make Palestinian concessions less desirable/harder, since they would have the sense that momentum and world support is on their side, and they can rely on others to push the Israelis in their direction versus the other. So the net impact of votes and speeches of this sort is not to make peace any more likely, but rather to make whatever peace deal can be worked anyway more favorable to the Palestinian’s position than that of the Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/8 "2016-12-29T20:02:26Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > So far, at least, this is one of the murkiest threads I’ve read in a while. 🙂 I think it really is murky, the suspicions and potential conspiracy theories arising from this will be all over the map. If taken purely at face value and considering the timing involved I can only imagine where speculations might lead. Will Obama’s loyalty to America come under scrutiny? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/9 "2016-12-29T20:12:11Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I think it really is murky, the suspicions and potential conspiracy theories arising from this will be all over the map. If taken purely at face value and considering the timing involved I can only imagine where speculations might lead. Will Obama’s loyalty to America come under scrutiny? I think what is meant is that the murkiness stems from the OP itself, not the vague situation the OP describes(or vaguely attempts to). ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/10 "2016-12-29T20:42:08Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Will Obama’s loyalty to America come under scrutiny? That’s right. Americans loyalty to Israel supercedes their loyalty to the USA - it’s in the constitution, ‘bibi’ said. Here’s the point, Obama finally had the balls to join the rest of the world in calling Israel out for its genocidal tendencies, and Netanyahu for being - at very beast - a borderline psychopath. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/11 "2016-12-29T20:53:07Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Are you worried that Israel going to attack us for not vetoing the resolution? Israel isn’t going to do that, being 100% pragmatic enough not to bite the hand that feeds them, but apparently senseless, over-the-top threats to other countries is fair game. > [@](#): > > According to reports in Israeli media, the Israeli PM called Murray McCully, the foreign minister of New Zealand, before Friday’s resolution, which was co-sponsored by Wellington. Netanyahu told him: “This is a scandalous decision. I’m asking that you not support it and not promote it. > > “If you continue to promote this resolution, from our point of view it will be a declaration of war. It will rupture the relations and there will be consequences. We’ll recall our ambassador [from New Zealand] to Jerusalem.” [Invade 100% Pure New Zealand?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xUYbI64QHI) 0% Airforce 0% Navy 0% Infantry? Bugger off Israel, that’s our job. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/12 "2016-12-29T21:25:33Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I think it really is murky, the suspicions and potential conspiracy theories arising from this will be all over the map. If taken purely at face value and considering the timing involved I can only imagine where speculations might lead. Will Obama’s loyalty to America come under scrutiny? What does any of this have to do with the speech Kerry made? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/13 "2016-12-29T21:30:07Z")
What does it matter what Obama’s next move is, or Kerry’s for that matter? These Israel haters will be out of power in a week and Trump can (and will) undo any shenanigans they try. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/14 "2016-12-29T21:31:21Z")
This speech has no significance at all: it’s too late; Obama will be gone in less than a month. The only consequences of Obama not vetoing the UN resolution are: that Trump will immediately move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem–something other Presidents declined to do (even when making election promises to do so) because it would be like pouring gasoline on a fire; Congress will increase aid to Israel and Congress will probably cut funding for the UN. The Arab world could have gotten a very good deal immediately after the 1967 war if they had been willing to make peace then, now all they can get is a truly miserable deal. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Universe_Lashes_Out)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/15 "2016-12-29T21:34:19Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The problem is that the Palestinians feel they have the UN and much of the world at their back, and this emboldens them to take a harder line than they might otherwise take. Really? That’s the problem? Not Israel building settlements with the intent on making a two-state solution impossible, when the two-state solution is the only even remotely reasonable path to peace? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/16 "2016-12-29T21:37:32Z")
That’s “the problem” with this particular speech (& UN non-veto). The Israeli settlements themselves are “a problem”. This thread is about Kerry’s speech, though ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/17 "2016-12-29T21:54:05Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > What does it matter what Obama’s next move is, or Kerry’s for that matter? These Israel haters will be out of power in a week Right, these Israel haters who signed a deal giving Israel $38 billion of military aid … > **[US pledges record $38bn military aid to Israel over next 10 years](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/13/us-israel-aid-38-billion-record-military-assistance)** > > Deal represents largest batch of US military assistance to any country ever but Israel’s ability to spend part of funds on Israeli products to be phased out ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/18 "2016-12-29T21:54:59Z")
I thought the problem was with the Not-President-Yet not being able to STFU and/or conducting illegal foreign policy as a private citizen. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/19 "2016-12-29T21:59:35Z")
Let the Jews have their one state. Let the Jews deal with the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855/20 "2016-12-29T22:03:27Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > . . . Here’s the point, Obama finally had the balls to join the rest of the world in calling Israel out for its genocidal tendencies . . . When did that happen? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/implications-of-john-kerry-speech/775855.md?page=2)