# Imprison Katie Hopkins! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 24, 2017, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328 "2017-05-24T07:12:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/61 "2017-05-25T04:13:10Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Because the U.K. and the rest of Europe are so innocent, right? :dubious: Wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Mikeisskeptical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@Mikeisskeptical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikeisskeptical)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/62 "2017-05-25T04:28:48Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Because the U.K. and the rest of Europe are so innocent, right? :dubious: Interesting debating strategy. Assign a dubious opinion to your opponent and follow it with a dubious smiley. Let me try. So genocide isn’t entirely bad then? :dubious: I take it you are now thoroughly convinced. ---
**Author:** ![Mikeisskeptical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@Mikeisskeptical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikeisskeptical)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/63 "2017-05-25T04:46:13Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > I know you were just blowing off steam but can’t you see that wishing your political opponent was dead is being just as bad as your political opponent? Don’t you think you’re better than her? Then _be_ better than her. Can you explain why wishing somebody dead is a morally bad thing? For all I care, Katie Hopkins, or anyone else for that matter can spend every waking moment wishing I was dead. They can wish as hard as they like. They can even recruit thousands of people to all wish at the same time. Why on Earth would I care? If you are so concerned, please feel free to counteract my mean wish with a nice wish of your own. Perhaps that a puppy will have it’s belly rubbed, or that a a sad child will receive an ice cream. Since wishing is basically the same as causing in your eyes, you can congratulate yourself on your good deed. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/64 "2017-05-25T05:07:42Z")
> [@Mikeisskeptical](#): > > Interesting debating strategy. Assign a dubious opinion to your opponent and follow it with a dubious smiley. Let me try. > > So genocide isn’t entirely bad then? :dubious: > > I take it you are now thoroughly convinced. That’s your interpretation of my post? Uh yeah, exactly. In fact, I think genocide is wonderful! Every country should do it! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/65 "2017-05-25T05:14:56Z")
How would \*you \*interpret your post? It looked like a straight up attempt to strawman to me. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/66 "2017-05-25T05:36:24Z")
Well, presuming to lecture those of us from the U.S. who are simply defending the concept of free speech, and assuming it’s because we’re all a bunch of racist, right-wing religious fanatics\*? Instead of finding the idea of censorship disgusting? Hopkins sounds like a total cunt, I’ll agree. But I also believe that she has a right to be one. \*I too find it amusing when people from Europe go on and on about how backwards and horrid the U.S. is, since they’re not exactly so innocent themselves. There’s plenty that’s wrong here in my country, I won’t deny it. But: > [@](#): > > ultra far-right politics, unchecked militarism, racial tension and religious fanaticism, a country which recently named a racist, illiterate sociopath as its leader, that publicly inciting violence against minorities Sadly, is not exclusive to the U.S., nor does it describe all of us here. ---
**Author:** ![Mikeisskeptical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@Mikeisskeptical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikeisskeptical)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/67 "2017-05-25T06:17:56Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, presuming to lecture those of us from the U.S. who are simply defending the concept of free speech, and assuming it’s because we’re all a bunch of racist, right-wing religious fanatics\*? Instead of finding the idea of censorship disgusting? I’m not just bashing the U.S. I’m pointing out that the fact that it is legal to call for the extermination of a minority there, is not sufficient justification for the rest of the world to consider that policy correct. The specific problems with race and religious tensions there, imply that maybe, just maybe, you don’t, as a country have the simple, definitive answer to a nuanced issue. It’s not as simple as “you’re always allowed to say anything you want”. You can’t defame people for example. You can’t make arbitrary false claims about products you are selling. You can’t make death threats towards the president. In the UK, we add that you can’t publicly call for ethnic or religious cleansing. In other ways, I think UK laws are too restrictive, but I think this one is pretty reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/68 "2017-05-25T06:38:08Z")
> [@Mikeisskeptical](#): > > I’m not just bashing the U.S. I’m pointing out that the fact that it is legal to call for the extermination of a minority there, is not sufficient justification for the rest of the world to consider that policy correct. The specific problems with race and religious tensions there, imply that maybe, just maybe, you don’t, as a country have the simple, definitive answer to a nuanced issue. > > It’s not as simple as “you’re always allowed to say anything you want”. You can’t defame people for example. You can’t make arbitrary false claims about products you are selling. You can’t make death threats towards the president. > > In the UK, we add that you can’t publicly call for ethnic or religious cleansing. In other ways, I think UK laws are too restrictive, but I think this one is pretty reasonable. I never said we did have an answer. Did you? As for whether it should be legal to call for genocide or whatever, I disagree with you. I think it’s better to have these assholes out in the open so we know who they are. You aren’t going to stop them from feeling that way from banning people from saying shit like this. Like I said before, you just make them into martyrs. Bad idea. Personally, I prefer to make them an object of ridicule. Take away their influence. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/69 "2017-05-25T07:37:49Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I never heard of her until this thread and, when I found out she was a columnist, the first thing I wondered was if she worked for The Mail. Yup. Sure enough. “'Nough said” is right. **(The Sun would have been my second guess.)** [You don’t say](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/sep/24/katie-hopkins-leaves-the-sun-to-join-mail-online) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mikeisskeptical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@Mikeisskeptical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikeisskeptical)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/70 "2017-05-25T07:49:29Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I never said we did have an answer. Did you? What I believe you said was “Are you just completely fucking retarded?” so it’s hard to know exactly what position you were taking. Just that you objected to my post. My post was suggesting that attitudes to race/religion considered mainstream in the U.S. are considered fringe or extreme elsewhere. It was itself a response to John Mace who said; > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I know this is a UK issue and UK law governs it, but in the US we would cringe at the idea of arresting someone for such a tweet. We don’t have active Thought Police. Yet. Given that I didn’t have much to go on, I assumed that you were saying that the U.S. stance was evidently superior to that in UK law. I countered that there are enormous problems within the U.S. relating to racism and religious bigotry which do not inspire emulation of its methods in tackling these evils. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > As for whether it should be legal to call for genocide or whatever, I disagree with you. I think it’s better to have these assholes out in the open so we know who they are. You aren’t going to stop them from feeling that way from banning people from saying shit like this. Like I said before, you just make them into martyrs. Bad idea. > > Personally, I prefer to make them an object of ridicule. Take away their influence. I understand that you disagree. What I’m saying is, in the country John Mace held up as an example of how to meet these challenges, the bigots seem to be doing okay. They have a huge influence on the future of the nation and by extension, the rest of the world. There are certainly racists and fanatics in the UK, indeed, they seem to be somewhat resurgent at present, but I think in general, punishing people for inciting bloodshed has a visibly beneficial effect. Those attitudes are still not considered mainstream. There are real examples we can look to. When people have publicly described other people as vermin and called for them to be wiped out. Far from taking away their influence and exposing them to ridicule, it has strengthened support for their message. You can’t prevent evil people from advocating barbarity, but you can keep it from becoming normalised. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/71 "2017-05-25T13:12:59Z")
Hey **Mike** : How’s that Brexit thingy working out out for you? Jesus Fucking Christ, the lady happened use the phrase “final solution” in a tweet and some of you guys want her dead. Give me a fucking break. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/72 "2017-05-25T18:07:09Z")
Things I learned in this thread. Wishing death on someone wishing death on others who wish death on others is totally A-Ok and the moral thing to do and makes you a righteous upright awesome human being. Someone wishing death on others who wish death on others is evil and immoral and they deserve death. Thankfully we have **BigT** and the usual retards to tell us how to be moral. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/73 "2017-05-25T18:10:38Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > [You don’t say](https://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/sep/24/katie-hopkins-leaves-the-sun-to-join-mail-online) 😉 Hah. And I totally didn’t even know that until your post. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/74 "2017-05-25T18:51:18Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > Sorry, I’ve read this a few times and I can’t figure out what you’re saying. Are you saying it’s OK to wish Katie Hopkins dead because of what she _did_ (wishing death on Muslims) or because of what she _is_ (a really terrible person)? After reading this post, I agree that you can’t figure out what I’m saying. > [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > Even though I’m not sure what you’re saying there, it’s painfully obvious to me that saying “Katie Hopkins is a terrible person because she wishes all Muslims dead. I wish she was dead” is the very height of hypocrisy. Wow. You really wrote that and posted it without realizing how stupid it was. Is this a habit or more of a hobby for you? > [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > And yes, some white guy in the UK wishing death on someone because he doesn’t like what they say or what they believe isn’t very different than some ISIS guy in Syria wishing death on people when he doesn’t like what they say or believe. (I’m just assuming the OP is a “white guy in the UK” apologies if I’m wrong) > > The ONLY difference is that I assume when the OP said “I’d like to see her in an unmarked grave” he’s not actively plotting her demise. > > That young man who murdered 22 people and injured dozens more likely had a conversation with someone and said “I wish they were all dead!”. How is that so incredibly different than saying “I’d like to see her in an unmarked grave”? > > I don’t care if you think it’s stupid. I think they’re pretty similar. I think it’s stupid to say that all cases of wanting someone dead are the same because it’s patently true that they are not the same. A racist who thinks someone should die because they are black IS NOT equivalent to someone wanting a murderer dead because they killed a loved one. One is someone wanting a person (or people) to die because of what they _are_ while the other is someone wanting a person (or people) to die because of what they _did_. ISIS wants people to die because of what they are. We are killing ISIS members because of what they did. It’s astounding to me that you see no difference in the two cases. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/75 "2017-05-25T19:52:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That doesn’t stop her from hurting people. Nor does it stop her people from voting to leave the EU or elect an evil wannabe dictator. Ignoring bigotry doesn’t make it go away. This shit has to be fought. Like you fight it when you cringe in your mommy’s basement making impotent squeaking noises rather than…y’know…doing something about bigotry? > [@](#): > > Also, let me be clear, my previous post is not advocating for this lady to be killed. I’m defending someone who wishes her dead. Ideally the law should handle it, because the UK apparently actually cares about bigotry, unlike much of the U.S. that wants to cry “freedom of speech” every time it rears its ugly head, and then tries to shut up the people trying to stop it. > > What I’m saying is that it doesn’t make someone a horrible person to want someone evil to die. If it did, then all the people happy that Roger Ailes died would be evil, too. Dear God, in addition to being a deranged man-child shut-in with no life experience, you’re an evil little fuck of a sociopath as well. I’m actually _glad_ you hide in your mom’s basement so that you don’t interact with decent human being, you festering pustule. First amendment rights matter more than your insignificant feelings. I can’t wait for you to be banned. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/76 "2017-05-25T20:43:43Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > What indeed should we do about the rightwing media? > > Engage them in the battlefield of ideas. How’s that going, eh? > [@Fenris](#): > > Like you fight it when you cringe in your mommy’s basement making impotent squeaking noises rather than…y’know…doing something about bigotry? > > Dear God, in addition to being a deranged man-child shut-in with no life experience, you’re an evil little fuck of a sociopath as well. > > I’m actually _glad_ you hide in your mom’s basement so that you don’t interact with decent human being, you festering pustule. First amendment rights matter more than your insignificant feelings. > > I can’t wait for you to be banned. The idea that you can throw shade on **BigT** is still less wrong than what is in this post. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/77 "2017-05-25T21:37:54Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > (The Sun would have been my second guess.) An excellent second option, to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/78 "2017-05-25T22:13:45Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > …saying “Katie Hopkins is a terrible person because she wishes all Muslims dead. I wish she was dead” is the very height of hypocrisy. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Wow. You really wrote that and posted it without realizing how stupid it was. Is this a habit or more of a hobby for you?. Maybe you need to spend a little less time down at the quarry. “hy·poc·ri·sy: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one’s own behavior does not conform” “That woman is bad because she wished death on people. I wish she was dead.” That IS hypocrisy. Keep in mind that I am not speaking about every time in human history that any person for any reason wished death on someone. I’m talking about this OP. A parent whose child was murdered wishing death on the murderer - not hypocrisy. Especially if they believe in the death penalty, then wanting the person who murdered their child to be put to death goes along with everything they already espouse. Wishing death on all members of ISIS - not hypocrisy. I am not a pacifist and wholly support self-defense. They are actively murdering, raping, burning and torturing people and if they all died - that would be a good thing. Anyway I’m always open to conversations with people who disagree with me but every post from you has been basically to call me stupid so you obviously aren’t interested in any discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Mikeisskeptical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@Mikeisskeptical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikeisskeptical)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/79 "2017-05-25T23:12:13Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > Maybe you need to spend a little less time down at the quarry. > > “hy·poc·ri·sy: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one’s own behavior does not conform” > > “That woman is bad because she wished death on people. I wish she was dead.” > > That IS hypocrisy. > > Keep in mind that I am not speaking about every time in human history that any person for any reason wished death on someone. I’m talking about this OP. > > A parent whose child was murdered wishing death on the murderer - not hypocrisy. Especially if they believe in the death penalty, then wanting the person who murdered their child to be put to death goes along with everything they already espouse. > > Wishing death on all members of ISIS - not hypocrisy. I am not a pacifist and wholly support self-defense. They are actively murdering, raping, burning and torturing people and if they all died - that would be a good thing. > > Anyway I’m always open to conversations with people who disagree with me but every post from you has been basically to call me stupid so you obviously aren’t interested in any discussion. Do I really need to explain this again? If you can show where I have ever condemned anyone for wishing death on an individual, you will have a the beginnings of an approximation of a point. You can’t, because I haven’t, so you don’t. Once again, calling for the murder of an entire group is different to calling for the murder of an individual and both are a million miles away from simply expressing the view that the world would be a little better without that person in it. Wishing is not inciting, is not causing. From what you wrote, it’s not entirely clear whether you think Katie Hopkins was advocating killing all members of ISIS. She wasn’t, she was talking about all Muslims. I’m not going to dignify the idea that it was a typo, or an unfortunate use of words. She was fully aware of what she was saying, to believe otherwise would require a level of credulity which I don’t think you want to insult yourself by claiming. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2017, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328/80 "2017-05-25T23:48:23Z")
> [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > Maybe you need to spend a little less time down at the quarry. After reading this post, I’m thinking you prolly need to spend more time down there. > [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > “hy·poc·ri·sy: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one’s own behavior does not conform” I’ve already shown you how the 2 situations are different. The fact that you can’t get beyond “wants someone dead = bad” is befuddling, but I can see that you can’t get past that stage of reasoning. I guess we’re stuck with you having an ill-arrived at conclusion. > [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > “That woman is bad because she wished death on people. I wish she was dead.” > > That IS hypocrisy. No, it isn’t. As I explained already, the woman wants people dead because of who they _are_; the OP’s wish was made because of what the single person _did_. I don’t know how to be more clear about that distinction. > [@FloatyGimpy](#): > > Keep in mind that I am not speaking about every time in human history that any person for any reason wished death on someone. I’m talking about this OP. > A parent whose child was murdered wishing death on the murderer - not hypocrisy. Especially if they believe in the death penalty, then wanting the person who murdered their child to be put to death goes along with everything they already espouse. > > Wishing death on all members of ISIS - not hypocrisy. I am not a pacifist and wholly support self-defense. They are actively murdering, raping, burning and torturing people and if they all died - that would be a good thing. > > Anyway I’m always open to conversations with people who disagree with me but every post from you has been basically to call me stupid so you obviously aren’t interested in any discussion. So you agree that there are times when it’s acceptable, or at least understandable that someone might want another person’s life to end; good. So, how do you feel about the leaders of ISIS, who may not have personally killed anyone? Would the world be better off if they were not on the planet? Why or why not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imprison-katie-hopkins/787328.md?page=5)