# Improper use of the word "I" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 4, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321 "2014-12-04T17:12:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/1 "2014-12-04T17:12:33Z")
I hear people doing this all the time – using the word “I” inappropriately. Examples: “Matthew gave the books to John and I.” “What does this recent development mean for you and I?” (Even newscasters do this.) I am an old fogey at 53, and I don’t recall that many people using “I” when the word was a direct object in the sentence when I was younger. Perhaps I lived a sheltered life… I’m thinking that I have heard this mistake a lot more in, say, the last fifteen years. Do you Dopers agree or disagree? Maybe it has always been prevalent, and I have just recently started noticing… ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/2 "2014-12-04T17:17:06Z")
It’s an easy mistake to make, since a lot of people are just taught “always say X and I, never X and me.” And that’s correct _most_ of the time. Except when it isn’t. I get the impression that a lot of grammar is not taught very rigorously anymore (it definitely wasn’t for me, growing up in the 80’s and early 90’s. I had to figure a lot of stuff out by myself.) ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/3 "2014-12-04T17:20:06Z")
It’s called hypercorrection. They’ve over-generalized and now assume, consciously or not, that me is always wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/4 "2014-12-04T17:21:57Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > It’s called hypercorrection. They’ve over-generalized and now assume, consciously or not, that me is always wrong. Except when me and him went to the store. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/5 "2014-12-04T17:22:18Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > I hear people doing this all the time – using the word “I” inappropriately. > > Examples: > > “Matthew gave the books to John and I.” > “What does this recent development mean for you and I?” > > (Even newscasters do this.) > I am an old fogey at 53, and I don’t recall that many people using “I” when the word was a direct object in the sentence when I was younger. Perhaps I lived a sheltered life… > > I’m thinking that I have heard this mistake a lot more in, say, the last fifteen years. Do you Dopers agree or disagree? Maybe it has always been prevalent, and I have just recently started noticing… The usage seems way off to me too, and I agree that it’s become more common in the past ten to fifteen years. But error may not be the right word for it. It’s a hypercorrection originally caused by uncertainty about the grammatical rule. But it’s increasingly heard from the mouths of fluent English speakers and may represent a change in grammar–a new rule that, when the object of a preposition is a noun plus pronoun phrase, the pronoun always comes second and is always in the nominative. I find that ugly myself. But I’m a descriptivist, not a prescriptivist. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/6 "2014-12-04T17:27:49Z")
Whether you are a descriptivist or a prescriptivist, it’s still a red flag, that indicates that the speaker has not grounded himself very well in the basic grammar of his own language, which casts suspicion over everything else he professes to know, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/7 "2014-12-04T17:34:08Z")
It’s a very easy mistake to make in casual conversation when you don’t have time to think for a couple of seconds. Yesterday I heard it on a radio commercial. That is unacceptable. It’s also unacceptable in written text when you do have a couple of seconds to think about it. Also, people seem to have a problem using the word “me” in any situation. How often do corporate messages end with “please contact myself” or a variation thereof? ---
**Author:** ![Nelson\_Pike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Nelson\_Pike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nelson_Pike)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/8 "2014-12-04T17:38:46Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Whether you are a descriptivist or a prescriptivist, it’s still a red flag, that indicates that the speaker has not grounded himself very well in the basic grammar of his own language, which casts suspicion over everything else he professes to know, as well. This strikes I as a bit too much harshly. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/9 "2014-12-04T17:41:42Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Whether you are a descriptivist or a prescriptivist, it’s still a red flag, that indicates that the speaker has not grounded himself very well in the basic grammar of his own language, which casts suspicion over everything else he professes to know, as well. It really doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/10 "2014-12-04T17:45:35Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > It’s an easy mistake to make, since a lot of people are just taught “always say X and I, never X and me.” Really—this is formally taught? Where? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/11 "2014-12-04T17:50:45Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > It’s a very easy mistake to make in casual conversation when you don’t have time to think for a couple of seconds. > > Yesterday I heard it on a radio commercial. That is unacceptable. It’s also unacceptable in written text when you do have a couple of seconds to think about it. > > Also, people seem to have a problem using the word “me” in any situation. How often do corporate messages end with “please contact myself” or a variation thereof? I almost hate the non-reflexive “myself” more than the accusative “I.” People can’t use “me,” because they’ve been told so many times it’s wrong, but they know that “I” sounds wrong as well, so they try to compromise with “myself,” when it really should be “me.” “Myself” is just as wrong. (Or, sometimes it should actually be “I,” but people have given up trying to choose at all, and just use “myself” all the time.) The writers of _The Big Bang Theory_ have Sheldon Cooper do this all the time, when you know it’s inconsistent with his character. The accusative “I” may have become more common in the last few years, but it isn’t just young people doing it. I worked with a guy in his 60s who did it with annoying consistency, and he was above me in the chain of command, so I didn’t feel comfortable correcting him. He didn’t take criticism well, at any rate. He could barely open his mouth without saying something stupid (he believed in homeopathy), and I pretty much just had to shut up entirely around him, because if I’d let loose at all, I would have lost it altogether. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/12 "2014-12-04T17:54:25Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Really—this is formally taught? Where? Most of my schooling was in the UK school system (mid-'60s through the '70s) and I was taught that “you and I” was correct. Or at least more correct than “you and me.” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/13 "2014-12-04T18:01:55Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Whether you are a descriptivist or a prescriptivist, it’s still a red flag, that indicates that the speaker has not grounded himself very well in the basic grammar of his own language, which casts suspicion over everything else he professes to know, as well. Saying that the usage in question is a red flag for descriptivists as well as prescriptivists shows that you don’t know what the former term means. Look. Languages change over time. English used to have an extensive case system in which word order was fairly lax. That’s no longer true; we no longer decline nouns to show their function in a sentence, but rather rely on word order and prepositions. The different forms of the personal pronouns are a vestige of the former system. No ambiguity is introduced by the “to X and I” type constructions. While I share the distaste for it, that is an aesthetic disapproval. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/14 "2014-12-04T18:14:04Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Most of my schooling was in the UK school system (mid-'60s through the '70s) and I was taught that “you and I” was correct. Or at least more correct than “you and me.” It, of course, depends on how it is used in the sentence. As a subject, yes. In the objective case (as in an object like “He gave her and me a present” or prepositional phrases like “between you and me”) no. There’s no general rule that “you and I” is always “more correct.” As **Inner Stickler** says, this is the result of hypercorrection, with English speakers generalizing the subjective case rule to all cases. It grates on my ears a bit, too. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/15 "2014-12-04T18:18:01Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Most of my schooling was in the UK school system (mid-'60s through the '70s) and I was taught that “you and I” was correct. Or at least more correct than “you and me.” Really? Without context? Were you taught to always say “I,” and never “me.” Nobody is saying here that “you and me” is always correct. All you have to do is remove the “you and” part, and the pronoun is obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/16 "2014-12-04T18:50:11Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Most of my schooling was in the UK school system (mid-'60s through the '70s) and I was taught that “you and I” was correct. Or at least more correct than “you and me.” Context is everything. He gave the apples to you and I. He gave the apples to I? Makes no sense. You and me are going to the movies. Me (is) going to the movies? Only in Bizarro World. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/17 "2014-12-04T19:02:06Z")
We get a lot of American TV shows here and I have noticed this error more in them than in the British shows. The Big Bang Theory is a good example. I suspect that most people only use this form when they mistakenly try to be correct and think that ‘me’ is somehow wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/18 "2014-12-04T19:07:50Z")
I won’t watch _Peter Pan Live_ tonight…not me! ---
**Author:** ![Quiztor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/c77e96/32.png) [@Quiztor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quiztor)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/19 "2014-12-04T20:02:02Z")
“You and I” _sounds_ better to me even though I know it’s incorrect. I have to consciously make myself not use it. One that really bothers me is the incorrect use of **There’s**. It seems almost never to be used right – everyone says _There’s_ instead of _There Are_. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321/20 "2014-12-04T20:08:38Z")
Although there are people who use there’re, there’s is pretty standard, if not strictly formal, as meaning either there is or there are depending on context. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improper-use-of-the-word-i/706321.md?page=2)