Improving the SDMB

I think it would be terrific to see the return of some of our old members who chose not to remain when pay-to-post was initiated (does anyone have the slightest clue how big a number this might represent?).

One thing concerns me, though: Periodically, over the past few years, we have seen a kerfuffle of sorts when a lapsed member elects to pony up the bux and return to the fold, but, not being able to recall his or her password (or sometimes username), employs the expedient of signing on as a new poster. Admins have gotten involved, and the matters would usually be cleared up with a minimum of rancor. I suspect that the reinstatement process hasn’t been too onerous to keep up with, largely because it was a somewhat rare event.

Should there be a large return of lapsed members, is there any mechanism in place to make long-forgotten passwords available, or to administratively reset them upon request? And are there plans in place to spread the word that fiscal considerations need no longer keep our ignorance-fighting brethren and cistern away?

I do hope this is intelligible.

Bring back the JEW SMILEY!

It’d be cool if we could customize the color scheme of our Dope interface. Like, red and yellow trim instead of blue and white, if we wanted it.

Mmmkay insert nuclear hazard symbol here WARNING THIS IS NOT A DRILL I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOU DYING IF YOU DO NOT GET IN THE LONG POST SHELTER NOW.

Ahem (remember this is basicalyl a copy+paste with some words changed and inserted).

What is rep?

Rep is a system in which a user can increase a users status (rep) or decrease it (derep) based on guidelines set by the forum.

Giving rep: Usually there will be a button added next to where the report button is (well, most forums have a different setup than this one, but same principle either way) that looks like a “+” or reads “give reputation” (usually a picture that says these things).

Types of Rep:

Positive rep
Usually represented (meaning I think this si default in vBulletin and included in the package) as a “green blip” on your rep sheet in the user CP, the positive rep is dictated by power (discussed later) and it increases your rep count. The more you get the better you are generally posting.

Negative Rep:
Usually shown by a red blip, this decreases your count by half the users rep power (except in the case of odd numbered powers, in which it is rounded up), getting these generally means you should probably take note of what they derepped you for and not do so anymore.

Arep
Areps (or “no reps”) are usually represented as little gray blips, these are given to you by people with zero power. These really mean nothing regarding the actual numbers on your sheet, but you should pay attention to the comment they left you to find out what you did to please/offend them.

Power:

Power is dictated by post count and amount of rep you have. The way I’ve seen that works best is as follows:

  • to Power: Post count
    1: 50 - 499
    2: 500 - 999
    3: 1000 - 1499
    4: 1500 - 1999
    5: 2000 - 2499
    6: 2500 - 2999
    7: 3000 - 3499
    8: 3500 - 3999
    9: 4000 - 4499
    10: 4500 - 4999
    11: 5000 - 5499
    12: 5500+
  • to Power: Reputation
    set power to zero: -10 or lower
    0: -9 - 249
    1: 250 - 499
    2: 500 - 749
    3: 750 - 999
    4: 1000+

Badges:
Not necessary, but they add something a little tangible that can make the system a little more fun and meaningful. Names are subject to change to reflect doper-themes. And numbers of rep and post count requires and rewards are of course subject to change to reflect the culture of the place and average post counts etc. This is simply the way I’ve seen it tuned, rewards and all (though some forum-isms have been altered to fit SDMB culture such as my mention of the pit on Low Karma).

Medium Karma:
Rewarded to those with at least 100 rep points and 150 posts. Powers include: being able to see who repped you (as MKs are expected to use this responsibly and not to venge-rep) and the ability to set yourself a custom title.

High karma:
Rewarded to people with at least 500 posts and 500 rep points:
High Karma is rewarded to users that truly set an example to others, all the powers of medium karma, plus extra PM storage space, and maybe something else they want to give you ;).
Low karma:
The dreaded LK, given to those with -10 and below rep points, these people are usually trolls. It doesn’t mean you should ignore them, it just means you should probably take their off the wall pit threads with a grain of salt. Punishment includes: Rep power being reset to zero, your user title being set to something like “Naughty Boy” (or whatever, this is what ti was when I saw the title adjustment) and often accompanied by a warning PM from a moderator.

Very low karma:
Given to people below -40 karma, after reaching this point you are auto-banned from the forums (though you can still PM a mod for an appeal of course).

How many people am I able to rep in a day?

You may only rep up to 5 people in 24 hours, and you cannot rep the same person until you have repped 20 other people.

A guide to how many reputations you have given in the last 24 hours is also included into the Rep Panel in the user CP.

"In the last 24 hours, you have given reputation to X posters.
You can give reputation to Y more posters today. "

The Daily Click Limit is how many times you’re able to give rep in 24 hours, and the Clicks Today is the number of times you have given out reputation in the past 24 hours. (This should be the default table at least)

But what rules? This will go nowhere if we have no regulations! Exactly, this is why we need rules in place.

Why to give rep:
Post is Helpful
Post is constructive
Post sets a good example for other dopers

Why to give derep:
The post is inflammatory
The post is abusive
The post is spam
The post breaks any other terms in the general forum rules
Basically any reason you’d also report to a mod, or those borderline posts that you wouldn’t necessarily report but are getting close to that territory.

Do not simply bandy around the forums looking for reasons to derep people. Use common sense - new members may not necessarily know the rules so point them in the right direction before scaring them away with bright red blips!

Incorrect reasons for giving reputation:

Do not rep someone because you like their signature or avatar, or derep them because you dislike their signature or avatar.

Do not rep someone because you like them, or derep them because you dislike them

Do not rep someone because you agree with them, or derep because you disagree with them. In the same spirit, it’s generally discouraged but not prohibited to rep someone because you like a picture they made or a song they wrote etc but it’s definitely out of the question to derep something of theirs based on personal taste against their art or idea.

Do not venge rep. Do not rep somebody because they repped you - either negative or positive. If you feel a reputation was given in error or unjustly, then take it to a mod or admin.
Do not give pity rep. Do not rep someone because they had a bad day at work, got flamed or any similar reasons.
Other guidelines:
There is a “comments” box in the repping form, do not leave abusive comments, leave helpful comments:
i.e. “That was good post -Jragon”
“That was spam, please try to stay on topic - Jragon”
It’s customary but not required to leave a name (i.e. if Medium Karma can see your name anyway it’s more of a reason for you to now always have to give your name)

Do not ask for rep:
This is called rep whoring, asking for rep is an offense and may actually lead to derepping!

No making threads/posts about rep:
There is a reason the rep system is private, don’t talk about rep people have given to you, except for a slight possible exception mentioned at the end of this post.
How will these rules be enforced?

Easy, give the mods tools to monitor rep and remove rep from the system (I think that’s a default privilege you can set) if it’s been given for a bad reason, that’s why I say PM a mod if you’ve been given a bad rep, or alternatively you can make a “rep complaints thread” (that was the exception I mentioned above) which you can post a rep issue there so the Mod’s inboxes don’t get flooded (though this is less private and may be disliked).

And a quick request:
Don’t make the number of rep a person has public. Only the following should be displayed (this is the way that prevents many disputes and is quite nice) Post count, repping power, badge (HK, MK, LK, VLK)

I joined in 2000, and have been reading since the AOL days. I hardly am a prolific poster, but I’d pay full price and view ads to keep my title. I never asked for the discount and honestly would continue to subscribe without it if it meant I’d keep my title.

… Closing in on post 200.

**Jragon ** that was a very detailed and informative post, but as one voice in the crowd, it sounds terrible and in some way against the general feel of the Doper environment as I perceive it.

Due to the way it is built, it will also lead to greater cries of post padding. At this point post padding is a silly accusation as a high post count means very little*. It looks like with the system shown it would take on much meaning.

Thank you for the very good post, but I hope the Dope does not implement such a system.

Jim

  • if anything usually a bit of an embarrassment.

After hearing the more detailed explanation, my opinion hasn’t changed either, and I agree with What Exit?. I just really don’t see the point.

Jragon, that was a good and informative post, but it does nonetheless convince me moreso that a rep system is a poor choice for this message board.

(I’m not on the Staff. I don’t speak for anything, not even the trees. I barely even exist.)

+1

Groan… :slight_smile:

Serious Question. What are you guys going to do to limit the annoying and hazardous quality of advertisements? Some ads exist only to spread malware. Some ads, like the talking Ford advert that expanded to cover the entire page, are offensively obnoxious.
I’m pretty sure you don’t want the SDMB to be a malware vector, and I’m also pretty sure you don’t want the ads pissing off people who come to read.

How you gonna handle it?

I don’t usually comment on these sorts of things, but I’ll do so to voice opposition to any sort of reputation system. I think the sort proposed above is better suited to eBay or a gaming website or something. These reputation systems can be neat, and they have their place, but I think that on the SDMB it would amount to a counterproductive popularity contest.

Posts in Great Debates or General Questions are supposed to stand on their own merits: their content, the sense in their assertions, and the evidence which backs them up. They’re not supposed to be given more or less credit based on the Forum Rep of the author – a popular poster can easily be wrong, and an infrequent poster can have the entirely correct answer or a brilliantly insightful idea.

I can imagine this even amplifying accusations of cliqueiness, pile-ons, or willful ignoring of points brought up by a (poorly-rep’d) opponent. Past such events could stick with people for a while, and a whole lot of emotional energy could be spent on worrying about the rep stuff instead of the content of posts – it could distract from the content in favour of the message board experience itself. And it could lead to accelerated dismissal of a poster and his/her ideas without even reading.

We’ve already built something up in this community which is more effective. Read for a while, and you find out that PosterAlpha tends to be rational, to write clearly, and to be knowledgeable on ant biology. BridgeDweller, on the other hand, makes wild assertions that are quickly refuted by other members, argues in an evasive, moving-target way,and has been pitted more than once. And the pittings, if read, tend to reveal whether there’s actually value in the irritation directed at that poster. You get to know the dramatis personae for what they are, over time. On the other hand, if you’re new to the boards, you don’t need a Rep system to tell you a priori what opinion to have of someone’s thoughts.

Count me in the crowd that thinks such a rep system would be a distracting, counterproductive element in a place like the SDMB.

Please count me as another opposed to a ‘reputation system’.

For newbies, or even oldies, I would think the reputation system would be a distraction to personalities rather than the content of their ideas. I would rather give more weight to the substance of a post than to the simple amount of ‘votes’ a person got, only because they have more days on a calendar since signup.

[aside]
And I have to admit it, even I look at ‘friends’ or Dopers I’ve met and seek out their opinion in a thread first–I really ought not to discount the others, but because I’m familiar with the people, I look at them first just out of human curiosity. I don’t like the fact that I have my own, inherent ‘popularity party’. I ought not discount what others have to say . . . but my attention span is limi

Oh look! Something shiny!
[/aside]

Tripler
Ooooooooh, a shiny nickel.

I agree that the rating system erodes community, and that’s a big reason I don’t like the idea of implementing it on this board. On a straight up GQ board, like Yahoo Answers (shudder) or Google Answers, or on a merchant board (ebay, Amazon) then it’s a useful thing - precisely because you don’t want to have to stick around long enough to get to know anyone. It’s nice to have a quick, immediate way to see how this poster has conducted herself in the past.

But, unless we’re radically altering not just the cosmetics, but the raison d’etre of the SDMB, we want to do the opposite here - we want to draw people in, to spark an interest not just in the single question they came here to answer, but in the community as a whole. I think…that’s how I feel about the board, in any case, and how it seems, based on our rules about socks and jerkdom, that TPTB have seen the board. So if you have to stick around for a while to learn who’s got great answers and form your own opinions, then that’s a *good *thing!

Am I the only one who found the line in the OP amusing: “Now that the online ad market is developing…” ? Because yeah, that’s so new. Heh.

We’re out here. Having the “Charter Member” title doesn’t mean we’re more important or special, but they have no logical reason to take it away and if it means something to the people who have it, then why do it? (Ooh, hey, can I have my title changed to “Hi.”?)

I agree. Small avatars would make it much easier for me to keep people straight. As it is I’ve been on the SDMB in it’s AOL and web incarnations for over 10 years and there are still only a very small percentage of people whose names I see and think “oh, I know what they’re like” because for the most part, I ignore the names. A small picture would give a much more concrete identity to people. And since it’s so easy to shut it off, I don’t see why people are so freaked out by it. Hoards of L33t kiddies are not going to race to our doorstep because we allow a 40x40 pixel image next to people’s names. You could probably find someone willing to be the staff member in charge of avatars (I think it would overload the moderators on top of what they already do, but give the gig to someone exclusively and it probably wouldn’t be such a big deal.) I’m assuming the idea is that one’s avatar would need to be approved by staff, not that staff would be picking them for us.

Those blue screens are just in the Admin console.

And regarding the whole reputation thing… that is a built in feature of Vb and can be turned on and off and settings changed very easily–it’s not like additional software would need to be installed. I personally don’t see the point and have that functionality disabled on my boards.

For those worried that your account will “expire” and you would have to sign up with a new name, don’t worry. That’s not how Vb works. Your account is simply in a category (each of which has its own gamut of settings and permissions), and the category would change. There are things that automatically change your category (paid subscriptions, for example) but there is also a drop-down menu in the admin interface that allows admins to manually change your category. You would simply be moved from the “paying member” category to the normal “registered member” category. The change is going to be that “registered member” will now have the ability to post, instead of before, where they didn’t after 30 days.

But now that I’ve said all of that: Hurrah for the return of free posting!

cough CafePress cough

Indeed. And if the Dope PTB can charge for avatars, then that’s one more modest revenue stream for the board.

Me too. The smartest Dopers occasionally post crappy posts, and vice versa. However a rating system worked, I’d rather see each post stand or fall on its own.

AFAICT, a lot of people are less than taken with the idea of wearing Slug Signorino’s artwork. Maybe if you had some SD or SDMB merchandise that was aesthetically pleasing, you might sell enough of it to make it worthwhile.

Not to mention it could be sold through CafePress, like Opal pointed out. (Hi, Opal!)

Heck, I don’t even like looking at Slug’s scratches. I’l be damned if I’ll buy a mug or T-shirt with one on it.

Same here. Blech.

I like this terminology. I think they should be reinstated with the title “lapsed member”. :wink: