# Improving your English is both easy and fun! (mild rant at native English speakers) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 19, 2003, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161 "2003-08-19T07:21:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/81 "2003-08-21T12:03:29Z")
Redboss, yes, it should be “cut and dried” – as in hay. I suppose the tobacco analogy would make sense too, but I believe (without a scrap of evidence on hand to back me up) that the haymaking origin is more likely. Oh, well, I just actually bothered to check my reference library, and found this in “The Dictionary of Cliches” by James Rogers (Facts on File Publications, 1985): _ **Cut and Dried Routine: prepared beforehand. Sometimes it is said as “cut and dry,” which is what one does with lumber, herbs, tobacco and flowers. The practice with herbs seems to have been the origin of the saying, which appears as early as 1710 in a letter to the Rev. Henry Sacheverell: “Your Sermon was ready Cut and Dry’d.” The transferred meaning arises because cut and dried items, however useful they may be, have lost their freshness.** _ Okay, so I was wrong. :o Although I still think haymaking feeds into the sense (said she stubbornly). ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/82 "2003-08-21T12:12:22Z")
Hmmmmmm… as I reread that 1710 quotation, it seems to me that describing the sermon as “ **ready** Cut and Dry’d” DOES support the haymaking origin after all. Since hay isn’t immediately useful (ready) till it’s been cut and dried. Of course, taken out of context, it’s kinda hard to be quite sure of what was meant. But that’s my story, and I’m sticking to it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/83 "2003-08-21T12:21:48Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Scarlett67_\*\* > There is no such thing as an “athiest” (which looks like some kind of superlative: athy, athier, athiest). I haven’t actually caught anyone who claims to BE one using this atrocious spelling, but the day will come. \*\* If I did, would it make me athier than thou? ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/84 "2003-08-21T22:33:59Z")
It’s miss’-chi-vus (only three syllables), not miss-chee’-vee-us. It’s jew-el-ry, not jew-le-ry. Jesus did not die on a unit of war horses. It’s Cal-va-ry, not Cav-al-ry. People who sell houses are real-tors (two syllables), not ree-la-tors (three). I’ve heard some very smart people use all these. I don’t correct them, but it jars me every time I hear these misproununciations. It’s such a burden being purfekt. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/85 "2003-08-21T23:32:47Z")
Lisa, will you marry me? 😉 And nobody explained this, so I will: > [@](#): > > quote: > Originally posted by Aesiron > You forgot “should of”, “would of”, and “could of”. > > \ > No one ever explains this gripe. Would “would have,” “could have,” and “should have” be acceptable to the complainers, or is there some sort of deeper problem? Yes, “would have” et al are correct. When people write _would of_, they are writing what they hear, which is incorrect in this instance. What they should actually write is _would’ve_, which is the contraction of _would have_. _Would’ve_ is, however, pronounced “would of” so people ignorantly write it that way. I’m actually board with this topic 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/86 "2003-08-21T23:33:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoe \* > \*\* Now this one is a doozie! I hope I spelled that right. \*\* This may be of interest to you: [http://nytimes.com/2003/08/22/books/22BOOK.html](http://nytimes.com/2003/08/22/books/22BOOK.html) (registration required). “Parenthetically Ms. Sheehy notes that the slang word ‘doozy,’ meaning ‘a stunning example, a wow,’ was inspired by [actress Eleanora] Duse.” ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/87 "2003-08-21T23:36:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DesertGeezer \* > \*\* > People who sell houses are real-tors (two syllables), not ree-la-tors (three). > \*\* People who sell houses are real estate agents. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/88 "2003-08-22T00:06:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Phase42 \* > \*\*I’m actually board with this topic 😉 \*\* Guess that explains your plank stare. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Hinten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecd19e/32.png) [@Hinten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hinten)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/89 "2003-08-22T00:22:29Z")
Lisa-go-Blind All I have to say is ‘here, here’! ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/90 "2003-08-22T00:27:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by **DesertGeezer** \* > Guess that explains your plank stare. 😛 You mean plank _stair_. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/91 "2003-08-22T01:25:40Z")
Ewe mien: prankster. ---
**Author:** ![Redboss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8baadc/32.png) [@Redboss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redboss)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/92 "2003-08-22T04:28:30Z")
A beautiful explanation. My hat’s off to you. Redboss ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/93 "2003-08-22T04:38:54Z")
(Blushing furiously) Aw, shucks, Mister – twarn’t nuthin’. Jest doin’ my job. (Ducking head; foolish grin) ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/94 "2003-08-22T05:05:46Z")
I’m going to contribute to this thread as soon as I get myself a cold ice tea and take of my watch. I don’t like wearing jewlery while typing, most of us atheletes don’t. In any case, my tenatiousness won’t permit me to stop let this go. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/95 "2003-08-22T05:38:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hinten \* > \*\*Lisa-go-Blind > > All I have to say is ‘here, here’! \*\* Okay ‘here’ I am!!! What/??? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![manx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@manx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manx)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/96 "2003-08-23T03:38:25Z")
So, grammar Nazis, a little help if you please? When I say ‘She’ll look at you weird’, that’s incorrect, no? But then, ‘She’ll look at you weirdly’ sounds awful. Should I just take the cowards route and say, ‘She will look at you as though you are a thing that is weird’. I ask because I had a half hour bus trip debating this with my friend, who is a grammar fanatic. I’m sure the bus was entertained. Also, pluralising things with apostrophes. Help. Is it - One grammar nazi, two grammar nazis. (nazies?). The grammar nazi’s pen; the grammar nazi’s pens, the grammar nazis’ pens. Oh english grammar. So confusing, so much fun. ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/97 "2003-08-23T03:46:33Z")
Your apostrophes are perfect in your example. However, where you have “cowards,” you should have “coward’s,” and that sentance should end in a question mark. It should be “She’ll look at you weirdly,” but if that sounds off-kilter to you, try “She’ll look at you oddly.” ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/98 "2003-08-23T03:46:44Z")
How about: “She’ll give you a weird look”? One grammar Nazi; two grammar Nazis. Yeh, I’d cap it, even used generically rather than referring to a genuine party member. The grammar Nazi’s pen; the grammar Nazis’ pens. One flurry; two flurries. BUT proper nouns that end in -y keep the -y when pluralized. Thus: one treasury, two treasuries; but the U.S. Treasury; U.S. Treasurys (meaning bonds). Also, Smith’s house (the house of Mr. Smith) but the Smiths’ house (the house of the Smith family). Thus endeth the lesson for today. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/99 "2003-08-23T05:52:49Z")
I cannot believe that no one–NO ONE–has brought up “affect” and “effect.” Sheesh, whata bunch of Kreetuns. And pretty much everybody I know gives me a weird look when I start talking grammar–except my SO who just sneers. It’s just not cool to expect people to use the language correctly. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by emilyforce \* > \*\*Ah, such memories… I once wrote a paper in grad school that got my ass canned. \*\* Then there are the reading errors. I saw “got my ass caned” and had to go take a cold shower. **Mighty\_Girl** , could one ask what your birth language is? How is your spoken English? I’m trying to learn Chinese–50 years too late–and I’d like to think that I have some hope… ---
**Author:** ![Manatee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/50afbb/32.png) [@Manatee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manatee)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/100 "2003-08-23T06:18:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Pre-Madonna? :eek: I’ve never seen that one before! \*\* Yep. I get a couple a year from my students. Most of whom are post-Madonna, so maybe they don’t know better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161.md?page=6)