# Improving your English is both easy and fun! (mild rant at native English speakers) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 19, 2003, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161 "2003-08-19T07:21:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/101 "2003-08-23T06:23:23Z")
As a court reporter, we fight with crossed swords at dawn over things like how to pluralize in a truly verbatim way – is it, “I went to the Jones’ house,” or to convey the way it’s actually spoken, is it “I went to the Joneses’ house”? I doubt anyone will ever issue a final ruling, on that OR the serial comma. And the issue of whether _y’all_ is really a word is strictly a Mason-Dixon debate. I say when someone says y’all, it’s silly to put you all. They didn’t SAY you all. No self-respecting Southerner would. But I digress. In the weird v. wierd, I offer this extended version of an old rhyme that for some useless reason I committed to memory years ago, and can now remember easily even though I forget my childrens’ names and telephone number regularly: I before E except after C or when sounded as A in neighbor and weigh. But their, weird, and either, foreign, seize, neither, leisure, forfeit, and height are exceptions spelled right. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/102 "2003-08-23T07:06:35Z")
How’s this? Got a great letter of reference, right out of college, from a charity for which I’d worked for more than 7 years. From the Regional Director, 4th down the food chain for the state: “He’s been an intrical part of our team, for both the Telethon and the summer camp.” Talk about moral dilemma and a bottle of Wite-Out… to go… ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/103 "2003-08-23T07:42:25Z")
How many people pronounce heinous as “hee-nee-us” instead of correctly as “hay-nus”? How about singular plurals like _ **a** _ stimuli? My teeth grind as if I were hearing someone sing off key. **I’m much too sensitive. I know!** 😛 ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/104 "2003-08-23T12:33:59Z")
“Affect” versus “effect” – oh, don’t get me started! The house belonging to the Jones family would be “the Joneses’ house” because “Joneses” is the plural of “Jones” following the rule that words ending in -s are pluralized with -es. I agree, it looks hideous, which is probably why I have to keep making that correction in the transcripts of certain court reporters whom I work for. Ah, Mama Tiger: It’s hard enough being a court reporter and taking that sludge; how’d you like to be the proofreader who reads for a dozen-plus reporters??? At least I don’t have to spend the day with the actual lawyers and witnesses. 🙂 There are days when I think, if I see “criteria” treated as a singular one more time, I’ll go berserk and commit hara-kiri with my red pen. And since court reporting is verbatim (okay, Mama Tiger, we won’t open THAT can of worms here, huh?) it has to be left as is. :mad: I’ve given up on “data” as a singular. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/105 "2003-08-23T12:56:26Z")
Disinterested. Especially in cases such as “the player appealed to the umpire who was disinterested.” Of course he was - umpires are supposed to be impartial. He was probably uninterested in the appeal. Sign on a local bank: “Not to big, not to small”. I want to go add “Not to good at spelling”. One that seems common in America: use of the plural form instead of singular when the plural ends in “a”. From a letter sent home from my son’s school: “The criteria is…”. You also see/hear “The bacteria is” more than “The bacterium is”. But being in the IT industry, I’ve given up on data/datum. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/106 "2003-08-23T13:03:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Manatee \* > \*\*Most of whom are post-Madonna, so maybe they don’t know better. \*\* My 15-year-old daughter was writing a book report for her summer reading book, and asked me from the other room if _that word_ was two separate words or if it was hyphenated. I had remembered posters mentioning this incorrect usage a couple of times on this board and was dying to know if she was using it the right way or not. When she brought me her paper to proofread, you have no idea how happy I was to see it was “prima donna.” She reads a lot, though. I’m convinced avid readers have a big advantage over those who never read. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/107 "2003-08-23T17:48:20Z")
So is Pat Benatar a pre-madonna? I hope she can have a positive affect on the music seen with her knew cd’s. (I feel sic just writing this.) ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/108 "2003-08-24T12:54:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mojave66 \* > \*\*Hi, I’m Mojave66. Care for a cookie? Baked them myself. > > I’m from a **desert.** I bring **dessert.** \*\* On that note: If you’re shipwrecked, you may end up on a **deserted** island (wishing you had some dessert, among other things), but not a **desert** island. If it’s near water, it can’t be a desert. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/109 "2003-08-24T13:07:09Z")
[Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com): > [@](#): > > des·ert1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dzrt) > n. > > 1. A barren or desolate area, especially: > > 2. An empty or forsaken place; a wasteland: a cultural desert. > > 3. Archaic. A wild, uncultivated, and uninhabited region. > adj. > > 4. Of, relating to, characteristic of, or inhabiting a desert: desert fauna. > > 5. Barren and uninhabited; desolate: a desert island. OK, this definition is obviously wrong then, but what _is_ the definiton of ‘desert’? If I’d had to guess it would have been something to do with annual rainfall, but apparently not. Is it just ‘dry’?? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/110 "2003-08-24T19:57:56Z")
ACK!!! Here I am, minding my own business, proofreading a transcript and trying desperately not to be driven mad by the attorneys’ childish bickering. They’ve reached the point (and it’s only page 46 of 174) of fighting about who’s making personal insults. Isn’t that bad enough, with adding a mistranslated idiom? Please, it’s “stock **in** trade”, not “stock and trade”. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/111 "2003-08-24T20:11:01Z")
What about “jury-rigged?” ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/112 "2003-08-24T20:27:37Z")
😃 Not something one should indulge in on dry land. 😃 On the high seas, a jury rig is “Temporary and makeshift rig in place of rigging carried away or lost.” (Dictionary of Nautical Words and Terms by CWT Layton, Master Mariner) I’m trying to whomp up a way to pun that back into your court, Mr. B, but so far I’m becalmed. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/113 "2003-08-24T20:50:19Z")
Well, I’m pooped; seems I was belayed to the mast of ignorance by a tautological line. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/114 "2003-08-25T02:14:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BiblioCat \* > \*\*She reads a lot, though. I’m convinced avid readers have a big advantage over those who never read. \*\* Oh, indubitably! A number of posters have mentioned that some of the common errors arise from hearing rather than seeing the term – “would of” being a prime example. In reading one gets to observe the phrase in its native habitat, surrounded by context, and learns how it should be used – or indeed intentionally misused for dramatic or comedic effect. Deliberately turning _prima donna_ into Pre-Madonna to “turn a phrase”, would be funny… thinking it was the correct phrasing would be unfortunate. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/115 "2003-08-25T03:35:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hyperelastic \* > \*\*This may be of interest to you: > > [http://nytimes.com/2003/08/22/books/22BOOK.html](http://nytimes.com/2003/08/22/books/22BOOK.html) (registration required). > > “Parenthetically Ms. Sheehy notes that the slang word ‘doozy,’ meaning ‘a stunning example, a wow,’ was inspired by [actress Eleanora] Duse.” \*\* Gosh - I’d always thought it came from Duesenberg automobiles. However, a quick check proved me wrong. Apparently, that’s a fairly popular bit of misinformation, although the word predates the car by two or three decades. And **Rilchiam** , of this, at least, I am certain: you are only half right about “desert islands.” That is the proper phrase as it was used a couple centuries ago and thence passed into common usage, although it does spring from a funky conjugation of the word “deserted,” and does mean “uninhabited” as opposed to “bare and sandy.” And then, of course, there is Mount Desert Island… I once had a very involved argument with a friend over “abound.” She said “The monkeys were a bound!” No, the monkeys abounded. We went in circles for twenty minutes until I found the dictionary. I’d rather forget the time the grocery store put up a sign announcing the anticipated opening of a branch of the local Bank Entrust. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/116 "2003-08-26T14:24:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > But if I hear “fine toothcomb” one more time someone’s going to get their fine teeth punched down their throat. **everton** , meet **[susanann](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3891282#post3891282)**. And, [you are not alone](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151792). ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/117 "2003-08-26T14:42:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lisa-go-Blind \* > \*\*On a similar note, writing (sp?) after a word grates on my nerves. If you’re uncertain about the spelling, either take the ten seconds to look it up or leave it misspelled and just not draw attention to it! You can say it was just a typo! Unless it’s something that cannot be verified quickly (such as the spelling of a friend’s unusual last name), it looks lazy and weakens your argument. \*\* [url=“[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=73232](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=73232)”]Note the date of this very rant by yours truly. _Plus ça change_… pan ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/118 "2003-08-26T14:46:35Z")
[Oh pant’s (sp?). Lettuce tri that agin](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=73232) ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/119 "2003-08-26T14:50:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > \*\*Anyone mentioned gorilla warfare? I don’t know how long I thought that’s what they were saying. > > “What’s this got to do with gorillas?” \*\* I first heard this phase during the Vietnam war. I did think we were fighting gorillas in the jungle. Speaking of “atheists,” there’s no such thing as a “diety.” Not even a skinny god qualifies. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161/120 "2003-09-01T03:06:10Z")
Something that I’ve noticed is that some people don’t know when to drop their _e’s_. The most common example is “truely”, but there have been others. Then there’s also “shoe-in” and confusion between “phase” and “faze”. I’d also like to mention a company’s motto which I found ironic. I don’t remember the company or the motto, but it was something about the importance of knowlege. As for “desert island”, it’s theoretically possible for an island to not get rain (although if it’s small, it would quite odd). Precipitation is the determining factor, not presence of water. Antartica (sp 🙂 ) is technically a desert, even though it’s covered in water. Desert Geezer > [@](#): > > It’s jew-el-ry, not jew-le-ry. What about jewl-ry? Is that acceptable? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/improving-your-english-is-both-easy-and-fun-mild-rant-at-native-english-speakers/196161.md?page=7)