# Imus Show Dissing Jill Carroll: WTF??? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 2, 2006, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900 "2006-04-02T02:15:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/81 "2006-04-03T00:56:50Z")
When I started this thread, I was really amazed that Imus and Co would say that low a level of insult about Jill Carroll, and pissed off about it. I thought twice before posting, but their comments were so vile I thought it deserved notice. Even then, I thought, “Well, maybe just a few idiots loading up the airwaves with misguided crap” Updike proved to me that those views are seriously taken by some, and really, served to spur others in defending Ms. Carroll, in a far better manner than I anticipated. There is an article in The Christian Science Monitor that [details](http://www.csmonitor.com/earlyed/earlyWO0331a.html) more of what happened prior to Jill’s release, and the last video she was forced to make before release. From that article: > [@](#): > > Shortly before her release, her captors - who refer to themselves as the Revenge Brigade - also told her they had infiltrated the US diplomatic compound in Baghdad, and she would be killed if she went there or cooperated with the American authorities. It was a threat she took seriously in her first few hours of freedom. > Carroll worked at the Wall Street Journal’s Washington office in early 2002 when that paper’s reporterDaniel Pearl was abducted and beheaded in Pakistan. "Many of her colleagues knew him and it was very emotional in the office,’’ Jill told her father. “She had that memory in the back of her head while she was being threatened.” > In making their last video, Mr. Carroll says her captors “obviously wanted maximum propaganda value in the US. After listening to them for three months she already knew exactly what they wanted her to say, so she gave it to them with appropriate acting to make it look convincing.” > Jill Carroll will undoubtedly speak for herself once she’s had time to recover from her ordeal and spend time with her family. But her friends and colleagues say she made it clear that she’s no friend to those who kidnap or harm civilians. > Those who encountered Carroll in a professional context repeatedly praised her fairness and compassion, as demonstrated by some of the thousands of letters the Monitor has received in her support. > “Her professionalism and objectivity were unparalleled within the media community,” Capt. Patrick Kerr, a Marine public affairs officer who got to know Carroll last December, when she spent a month with a Marine unit in Western Iraq, said in an e-mail. “I saw her in Husaybah, on the Syrian border, in early December shortly before I returned to the States. Aside from being very personable and down-to-earth, what really struck me was Jill’s bravery. She seemed to fit right in with the marines and Iraqi security forces,” he wrote in January. Jill Carroll is a brave woman, and survived a terrible situation, and by surviving, can also now give valuable information about how her captor’s operations work, and possibly avoid similar situations. As a young journalist, she could have chosen many easier beats. She chose to go to Iraq, and help the world understand the situation there. The worst then happened to her, kidnapped, and having three months to think that every day she just might be killed. What angered me most about the idiotic Imus show Har-Dee-Har was their making light of would be an abuse of rape under capture, and winky hints thereof, so, after that, she must be a terrorist sympathizer. Disfuckingscusting… I’ve never heard anyone diss male abductees as “Hmm, bet he had to bend over a bit in his cell, you know how it is, and is now a Terrorist Honey Boy!!” ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/82 "2006-04-03T00:58:09Z")
**Guin** , it’s not quite as clear as that, but in Jill Carroll’s case she could not be providing aid and comfort because it was not done willingly, and was in fact done under what could be considered extreme duress. For instance, if I were captured and immediately upon captivity announced that I would cooperate without offering any resistance I would be offering aid and comfort and I would be judged harshly when I got home (in the military there is a conduct review of your behavior in captivity upon repatriation). However, if they put a gun to my head and tell me to do it or else I am, strangely enough, obligated to do it. I have learned techniques that allow me to be able to devalue propaganda footage or “confessions”, but I find it very doubtful that Jill Carroll has had such training. She made the statement, she made it home alive, and she did it without any of the training that I have. Under the circumstances she did everything right, and I admire her for that. I only hope that I could do as well under the same circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![username\_taken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c0e974/32.png) [@username\_taken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/username_taken)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/83 "2006-04-03T01:02:56Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Making a statement about how the enemies are good people and the U.S. are not is NOT giving “aid or comfort.” It’s not actively helping them do a goddamned thing, you incoherant cretinous fuckstain. > > And since said statements were made UNDER FUCKING THREAT OF DEATH, that goes doubly so. > > Good god, you disgust me. Idiots like you are everything that’s wrong with America. > > Aiding and giving comfort would entail spying on the U.S., shooting at American soldiers, etc. > > Hell, it’s a fact that in the past, the U.S. have committed war crimes against people and waged war (if undeclared) on nations who didn’t deserve it. I guess that makes me a traitor, eh? > > If you had a brain, you’d be dangerous. I’m new here, but aren’t you the one that posted a Pit to another member last week that totally fell apart, and in the end pitted yourself? What’s with the disgusting name calling you’re directing at Updike? Dude, step away from the computer! Do I agree with Updike? Nope. But his post made me think (tried seeing through the eye of an Imus listener- shudder). What’s with everyone bashing the hell out of the guy? Some of you people need to seriously calm down and try debating like adults. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/84 "2006-04-03T01:04:46Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Good god, you disgust me. Idiots like you are everything that’s wrong with America. > > Aiding and giving comfort would entail spying on the U.S., shooting at American soldiers, etc. > > Hell, it’s a fact that in the past, the U.S. have committed war crimes against people and waged war (if undeclared) on nations who didn’t deserve it. I guess that makes me a traitor, eh? > > If you had a brain, you’d be dangerous. We are safe, I just remembered that the motto of the \*\*_Updike \*\* Citizens Brigade_ is “Don’t think.” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/85 "2006-04-03T01:09:02Z")
> [@username\_taken](#): > > I’m new here, but aren’t you the one that posted a Pit to another member last week that totally fell apart, and in the end pitted yourself? What’s with the disgusting name calling you’re directing at Updike? Dude, step away from the computer! > > Do I agree with Updike? Nope. But his post made me think (tried seeing through the eye of an Imus listener- shudder). What’s with everyone bashing the hell out of the guy? Some of you people need to seriously calm down and try debating like adults. Dude, even posters that are conservative are disgusted at \*\*Updike \*\* right now, I believe you have to wonder and reflect on what did you think. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/86 "2006-04-03T01:26:23Z")
Fair enough, **Airman**. That completely makes sense. **username\_taken** , huh? Yes, there was a pitting I made of a poster that didn’t turn out the way I hoped, but hey, that happens. I think I learned a little bit from it. As for **Updike** , he has a history of acting like a dick, and I don’t believe I was too harsh on him. The fact that **Airman** , who, unlike **Updike** HAS been in that region, risking his life, and is disagreeing with him should say something. Of course, **Updike** is too damn pig-headed to accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/87 "2006-04-03T01:30:51Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Wrong. Nothing said under torture or threat of death is a crime. John McCain signed statements under torture. Everybody breaks under torture. Are you a tough guy, **Updik**? Are you immune to torture? Do you think you couldn’t be tortured into saying anything your captors wanted you to say? I’ve give odds that a pussy like you would crack in less than a minute. Hey tough guy, point out the exception in the law, or the Constition, that states that duress is a positive defense to a charge of treason. I’ll wait, but I won’t hold my breath. ---
**Author:** ![username\_taken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c0e974/32.png) [@username\_taken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/username_taken)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/88 "2006-04-03T01:35:54Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Dude, even posters that are conservative are disgusted at \*\*Updike \*\* right now, I believe you have to wonder and reflect on what did you think. This got me to thinking of all the times I’ve thought Imus was a total idiot (I’ve listened to far too much of him thanks to a coworker with a loud radio). As other posters said, his show and his success owe itself to the controversy he creates. He takes cheap, childish shots at people all the time (kind of like what’s occurring here). It’s sad to see all the politicians (and worse) journalists that come on his show and kiss his ass. What the OP quoted is reprehensible, childish, disgusting. Jill Carroll is free (thank God), and to now take swipes at her is sad. BUT, name calling Updike for his post is all sad, and childish. Anywho, figured I’d get that off my chest. I read this site for info and some insight, not to read people trying to get in with the ‘popular’ crowd by doing pile-ons. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/89 "2006-04-03T01:44:30Z")
Except, this is the forum FOR calling people names. It’s not for nice, polite discussion. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/90 "2006-04-03T01:47:20Z")
> [@username\_taken](#): > > This got me to thinking of all the times I’ve thought Imus was a total idiot (I’ve listened to far too much of him thanks to a coworker with a loud radio). As other posters said, his show and his success owe itself to the controversy he creates. He takes cheap, childish shots at people all the time (kind of like what’s occurring here). It’s sad to see all the politicians (and worse) journalists that come on his show and kiss his ass. What the OP quoted is reprehensible, childish, disgusting. Jill Carroll is free (thank God), and to now take swipes at her is sad. BUT, name calling Updike for his post is all sad, and childish. Anywho, figured I’d get that off my chest. I read this site for info and some insight, not to read people trying to get in with the ‘popular’ crowd by doing pile-ons. Dude, don’t you realize this is the pit? I was giving you the benefit of the doubt there but now I can see that you are ignoring on purpose that at the same time the pile on is going on (I can not speak for others but I usually do) we present really insightful examples on why Updike is not an upright citizen. Please go to General questions, Great debates, Cafe society, In My Humble Opinion or even Mundane Pointless stuff if you look only for more “pure” insightful thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/91 "2006-04-03T01:47:28Z")
> [@username\_taken](#): > > Anywho, figured I’d get that off my chest. I read this site for info and some insight, not to read people trying to get in with the ‘popular’ crowd by doing pile-ons. Have you considered that perhaps people are condemning Updike’s opinion individually, and not as part of some group “let’s all badmouth Updike!” party? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/92 "2006-04-03T01:52:57Z")
> [@username\_taken](#): > > I read this site for info and some insight, not to read people trying to get in with the ‘popular’ crowd by doing pile-ons. Certain assertions, such as those expressed by **Updike** , merit group scorn and opprobrium. ---
**Author:** ![username\_taken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/c0e974/32.png) [@username\_taken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/username_taken)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/93 "2006-04-03T01:55:39Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Dude, don’t you realize this is the pit? > > I was giving you the benefit of the doubt there but now I can see that you are ignoring on purpose that at the same time the pile on is going on (I can not speak for others but I usually do) we present really insightful examples on why Updike is not an upright citizen. > > Please go to General questions, Great debates, Cafe society, In My Humble Opinion or even Mundane Pointless stuff if you look only for more “pure” insightful thoughts. I thought Imus was the one being pitted. Oh well, let me retract what I previously replied. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/94 "2006-04-03T02:05:39Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Hey tough guy, point out the exception in the law, or the Constition, that states that duress is a positive defense to a charge of treason. I’ll wait, but I won’t hold my breath. OK, let me make this simple: when you are charged with treason you have a right to a trial. If in the course of that trial it is determined that your statements were made under extreme duress you will not be held responsible for them. As **Diogenes** said, you will break under torture, and certain allowances are made for that eventuality. Everybody breaks. Trust me. Even if your statement is bullshit you will make one at one point or another if they want you to make one. It is your overall behavior in captivity that will determine your fate. If you willingly make statements, you will be judged harshly. If they beat it out of you you will not be judged harshly. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/95 "2006-04-03T02:22:31Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Hey tough guy, point out the exception in the law, or the Constition, that states that duress is a positive defense to a charge of treason. I’ll wait, but I won’t hold my breath. I notice you didn’t answer my question, cumbubble. Do you think you can stand up to torture? Yes or no. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/96 "2006-04-03T02:30:29Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I notice you didn’t answer my question, cumbubble. Do you think you can stand up to torture? Yes or no. hell he couldn’t even stand up to verbal personal insults on an internet message board w/o whining. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/97 "2006-04-03T02:34:55Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > OK, let me make this simple: when you are charged with treason you have a right to a trial. If in the course of that trial it is determined that your statements were made under extreme duress you will not be held responsible for them. As **Diogenes** said, you will break under torture, and certain allowances are made for that eventuality. Everybody breaks. Trust me. Even if your statement is bullshit you will make one at one point or another if they want you to make one. I’m curious here. When have you ever read a law that included the word “unless”? As in, such and such is illegal “unless” you’re under duress. Then it’s A-OK, peachy keen. I don’t think so. “Zaraib” Carroll should go to jail for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/98 "2006-04-03T02:35:35Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > Hey tough guy, point out the exception in the law, or the Constition, that states that duress is a positive defense to a charge of treason. I’ll wait, but I won’t hold my breath. What do you think “adhering to the enemy” means? It means that treason requires the _intent_ to help the enemies of the United States. Saying things that “hurt America” isn’t treason; even saying them with the knowledge that they will hurt America isn’t treason. Only the _intent_ to help the enemies of the United States qualifies as treason. So _of course duress is a positive defense against treason you demagogic fuck_. Read [this](http://volokh.com/posts/1089159959.shtml) and learn. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/99 "2006-04-03T02:39:33Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > I’m curious here. When have you ever read a law that included the word “unless”? > > As in, such and such is illegal “unless” you’re under duress. Then it’s A-OK, peachy keen. I don’t think so. “Zaraib” Carroll should go to jail for a long time. Can you stand up to torture? Yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900/100 "2006-04-03T02:39:44Z")
**Updike** , it’s time for you to play the Quiet Game. > [@Updike](#): > > Hey tough guy, point out the exception in the law, or the Constition, that states that duress is a positive defense to a charge of treason. _D’Aquino v. U.S., U.S. v. Vigol, Respublica v. McCarty_, other things you can’t read. > [@Updike](#): > > I’ll wait, but I won’t hold my breath. If only you would. Let’s face it, you’re made of the kind of staunch material that squawked for help when a couple of message board posts hurt your feelings. Do you not realize how discredited you are when it comes to discussing the level of bravery expected of kidnapped reporters in a war zone? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/imus-show-dissing-jill-carroll-wtf/350900.md?page=6)