# In 2011, nonwhite babies born in America outnumber white. Does this matter? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 23, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784 "2012-05-23T03:00:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/21 "2012-05-23T14:30:05Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Yeah, but the whole notion of Latinos as a single political block is as stupid as the whole notion of Latinos as being all the same shade. And quite racist as well. So is assuming that blacks are always liberal. Many are quite conservative on certain issues, such as law and order, and gay marriage. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/22 "2012-05-23T15:42:03Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > And quite racist as well. So is assuming that blacks are always liberal. Many are quite conservative on certain issues, such as law and order, and gay marriage. Nevertheless, the Dems can almost always count on their votes, because the Pubs persistently have nothing that appeals to them. That’s just how it is, ever since the 1960s. Sad thing for the Party of Lincoln. ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/23 "2012-05-23T16:16:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Nevertheless, the Dems can almost always count on their votes, because the Pubs persistently have nothing that appeals to them. That’s just how it is, ever since the 1960s. Sad thing for the Party of Lincoln. The blacks are making a sad mistake by letting the Democrats take them for granted. Groups or states that are either taken for granted or written off get nothing from the government. Swing voting blocs and swing states do a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/24 "2012-05-23T17:12:43Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > The blacks are making a sad mistake by letting the Democrats take them for granted. Groups or states that are either taken for granted or written off get nothing from the government. Swing voting blocs and swing states do a lot better. They would make a way bigger mistake voting GOP. At least the Dems actually care about them **sometimes.** ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/25 "2012-05-23T18:03:30Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > The blacks are making a sad mistake by letting the Democrats take them for granted. Groups or states that are either taken for granted or written off get nothing from the government. Swing voting blocs and swing states do a lot better. The thing is, you’re looking at it backwards. It isn’t the blacks’ (or Latinos’) problem that they vote for Democrats rather than Republicans. They have their reasons, however misguided you think they are. If you are a Republican, you’re the one with the problem because you have to figure out how to get their votes. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/26 "2012-05-23T18:06:57Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > The thing is, you’re looking at it backwards. It isn’t the blacks’ (or Latinos’) problem that they vote for Democrats rather than Republicans. They have their reasons, however misguided you think they are. If you are a Republican, you’re the one with the problem because you have to figure out how to get their votes. Right. It’s true that it is not in the best interest of black and Latino voters (or anyone else) to have their votes taken for granted, but it’s only a problem if they feel the two parties are making equally compelling arguments for their votes. If they are not, this is just a no-brainer. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/27 "2012-05-23T18:11:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [shrug] “Race” is defined by social norms, not biology. [Obama is half-black, half-white, therefore black.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15084002&postcount=23) So is your contention that Eva Longoria, Andy Garcia, Charlie Sheen, and Cameron Diaz are “non-whites”? Quite a few Hispanics would disagree. Besides, there was a time when people thought the same of Catholics and non-Northern Europeans. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/28 "2012-05-23T18:21:54Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > So is your contention that Eva Longoria, Andy Garcia, Charlie Sheen, and Cameron Diaz are “non-whites”? Consider, too, the Fantastic Four movie, where Jessica Alba was cast as the blonde sister of Chris _So-Freakin’-White-He-Could-No-Foolin’-Play-Captain-America_ Evans. And then there’s the coverage of the Trayvon Martin case: how is George Zimmerman described? Well, it’s – kind of been all over the place. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/29 "2012-05-23T19:46:10Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Consider, too, the Fantastic Four movie, where Jessica Alba was cast as the blonde sister of Chris _So-Freakin’-White-He-Could-No-Foolin’-Play-Captain-America_ Evans. > > And then there’s the coverage of the Trayvon Martin case: how is George Zimmerman described? Well, it’s – kind of been all over the place. Moreover, according to poll after poll almost 40% of all Hispanics view themselves as white. As for Zimmerman, in my experience, when you have an anglo name and speak English without a trace of an accent, unless you’re really, really dark-skinned, most people consider you and treat you as white. I think any white people terrified of this development are simply being ignorant. Besides, this isn’t going to lead to any dramatic political realignments. Asian-Americans and Hispanic Americans tend to vote far more along class lines than either Black or “White” Americans do. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/30 "2012-05-23T20:01:57Z")
Also, remember how the interracial kiss on STAR TREK in the late '60s was a big deal? A _they-were-mind-controlled-and-you-can’t-even-see-their-lips-touch_ kiss? How often did I LOVE LUCY draw nary a peep for having a Cuban dude spank his misbehaving white wife fifteen years earlier? ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/31 "2012-05-23T20:02:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [shrug] “Race” is defined by social norms, not biology. [Obama is half-black, half-white, therefore black.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15084002&postcount=23) Way back when…I had job where I spent part of the time as a ‘coder’ of respondent open end data. Hey, it was the entry level job 🙂 Part of this was coding race. So, people would check ‘other’ under race and type in ‘half black/half white’ to which I would dutifully code as ‘Black’. Hey, don’t glare at me…those were my instructions. 🙂 There was a Japanese woman who worked at the same place and, one day, was curious about what I was doing. She saw the example above and asked why I didn’t code that person as White. I don’t know, I said…I’m just following what I was told\* She was very skeptical of this…saying in no uncertain terms that this was WRONG. Being the mischevious person I am, a few hours later I called her over. She did not know that I had typed this in…“Half Black/Half Japanese”. I asked her that I didn’t have instructions for this and should I code this person as Black or Asian? Without skipping a second…she immediately said “Black”. - Despite nefarious racial theories…I found out the TRUE reason was that Blacks didn’t answer surveys as frequently as Whites and so coding nebulous cases as Black made the sample look better. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/32 "2012-05-23T20:12:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Very few, until the Republican party drastically remakes itself. There’s plenty of conservative non-whites _now_ who vote Democrat simply because of the deep, entrenched racism of the Republicans. > > As has been said before, the Republicans have put themselves in a trap. They’ve become dependent on a narrow, fanatical racist & religious demographic that is dying out, while at the same time alienating huge numbers of other people who might otherwise vote for them. If they want those alienated voters, they’d have to jettison the bigots & fanatics; but if they give up those fanatics & bigots they will lose the next few elections at _least_ while they try to convince people that yes, they really have changed. And a party is highly unlikely to commit that kind of purge and condemn itself to years “in the wilderness” before it’s forced to. And given how much power those fanatics have in the party it’s entirely possible that the Republicans _can’t_ throw them out anymore. I wouldn’t be too surprised if the fanatics controlling the Republicans ride their collapsing demographics down in flames, and some other party becomes the new major right wing party. Especially if the wealthy patrons of the Republicans decide they are a losing proposition that can’t be saved and decide to back a new party as their front man. There was a Latino comedian that my family and I went to see that had a routine on this. He said many Latinos are more Republican than most Republicans and would flock to the Republican Party in a heartbeat if allowed. That is what will happen in the future. The Republicans will jettison their racist and nutjob part…will suffer for a few years and then be a true party of fiscal conservatives as their main platform. The jettisoned group of nutjobs will be vocal for some years but fade away to 3rd party status. It will happen IMO. It truely is a case of having to destroy their Party in order to save it. If they don’t do it, they will fade to 3rd Party status. ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/33 "2012-05-23T20:33:57Z")
[QUOTE=BlinkingDuck;1509418Part of this was coding race. So, people would check ‘other’ under race and type in ‘half black/half white’ to which I would dutifully code as ‘Black’. Hey, don’t glare at me…those were my instructions. 🙂 [/QUOTE] This made me remember instructions I was given to fill out forms as a volunteer intake worker at a partly state funded homeless shelter, years ago in California. “Always list the child as the same race as the mother”, and this rule was cut and dry no matter what; and of course it gave me cause to chuckle on many occasions. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/34 "2012-05-23T22:02:20Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > The jettisoned group of nutjobs will be vocal for some years but fade away to 3rd party status. Or simply, physically, die off. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/35 "2012-05-23T22:05:23Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Besides, there was a time when people thought the same of Catholics and non-Northern Europeans. Yeah, go home, [Sheriff Arpaio!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arpaio) **Italians** ain’t white! We’re still getting used to the damned [Irish!](http://www.amazon.com/Irish-Became-White-Noel-Ignatiev/dp/0415918251) :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/36 "2012-05-23T22:28:37Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Way back when…I had job where I spent part of the time as a ‘coder’ of respondent open end data. Hey, it was the entry level job > > Part of this was coding race. So, people would check ‘other’ under race and type in ‘half black/half white’ to which I would dutifully code as ‘Black’. Hey, don’t glare at me…those were my instructions. I used to have a job like that. I did security interviews for incoming prisoners. I had to fill out a list of questions and one of them was “Ethnic group?” Nobody gave me any instructions, so I adopted a simple policy. I asked the guy what ethnic group he was and I wrote down whatever he said. If he said he was black, that’s what I wrote down. If he said he was white, I wrote that down. If he said he was black and white or bi-racial or mulatto or mixed or American or human or negro or colored or bilalian, I wrote that down (and, yes, those were all actual answers I received). My only two objections were I didn’t want any long and complicated answers, so if a guy told me _“well, my mother was mostly white but her grandmother was from someplace in Asia - Korea or maybe Manchuria - and my father was part black and part Hispanic plus maybe a little bit American Indian but I’m not sure what tribe”_ I would tell him he had to summarize that down to a few words. And no changing your mind. If somebody told me something, I’d go ahead and write whatever down whatever it was. No take-backs when somebody said he was just joking. _“Too late, Kowalski, you said you were Chinese and I wrote that down - in ink. So from now on, you’re officially Chinese.”_ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/37 "2012-05-24T02:17:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I used to have a job like that. I did security interviews for incoming prisoners. I had to fill out a list of questions and one of them was “Ethnic group?” > > Nobody gave me any instructions, so I adopted a simple policy. I asked the guy what ethnic group he was and I wrote down whatever he said. If he said he was black, that’s what I wrote down. If he said he was white, I wrote that down. If he said he was black and white or bi-racial or mulatto or mixed or American or human or negro or colored or bilalian, I wrote that down (and, yes, those were all actual answers I received). > > My only two objections were I didn’t want any long and complicated answers, so if a guy told me _“well, my mother was mostly white but her grandmother was from someplace in Asia - Korea or maybe Manchuria - and my father was part black and part Hispanic plus maybe a little bit American Indian but I’m not sure what tribe”_ I would tell him he had to summarize that down to a few words. And no changing your mind. If somebody told me something, I’d go ahead and write whatever down whatever it was. No take-backs when somebody said he was just joking. _“Too late, Kowalski, you said you were Chinese and I wrote that down - in ink. So from now on, you’re officially Chinese.”_ And the chosen classification is binding on which ethnic prison-gang you join, of course? That could make for some interesting scenes . . . ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/38 "2012-05-24T02:59:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > They would make a way bigger mistake voting GOP. At least the Dems actually care about them **sometimes.** I hope you’re kidding about the Democratic Party “really caring”. About as much as McGovern really cared about the rehabilitation of the mentally ill. Until he booted a recovered Thomas Eagleton from the ticket for a prior episode of depression. > [@suranyi](#): > > The thing is, you’re looking at it backwards. It isn’t the blacks’ (or Latinos’) problem that they vote for Democrats rather than Republicans. They have their reasons, however misguided you think they are. If you are a Republican, you’re the one with the problem because you have to figure out how to get their votes. What policies have the Democrats really given the blacks that have helped them? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/39 "2012-05-24T03:01:07Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And the chosen classification is binding on which ethnic prison-gang you join, of course? That could make for some interesting scenes . . . No, they had their own recruitment standards. The official reason for this was because we had a certain finite number of “festivals” during the year. So we wanted to ensure the ones chosen were the ones most relevant to our population. No point in scheduling a Cinco de Mayo event if we only have five prisoners of Mexican ancestry. But if we have a hundred Dominicans and Jamaicans, we should schedule an Emancipation Day festival in August. The unofficial reason was simple intelligence gathering. Same reason we’d maintain records of how many prisoners ate meals every day, how many went out to the yard, how many went to sick call, how many packages were mailed to prisoners, etc. We spent a lot of time gathering data and watching for patterns. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784/40 "2012-05-24T03:04:43Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > What policies have the Democrats really given the blacks that have helped them? Well, Democrats seem to feel they’ve helped blacks. And blacks seem to feel that Democrats have helped them. So if you know otherwise, you apparently haven’t succeeded in convincing the people involved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-2011-nonwhite-babies-born-in-america-outnumber-white-does-this-matter/622784.md?page=3)