# In a democracy, you tend to get the kind of law enforcement you deserve **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-democracy-you-tend-to-get-the-kind-of-law-enforcement-you-deserve/717205 "2015-04-09T13:35:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-democracy-you-tend-to-get-the-kind-of-law-enforcement-you-deserve/717205/21 "2015-04-09T20:10:45Z")
I don’t buy the use of “deserve” to describe democratic outcomes. It seems unhelpful to tell someone they “deserve” the effects of public stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-democracy-you-tend-to-get-the-kind-of-law-enforcement-you-deserve/717205/22 "2015-04-09T20:23:15Z")
> [@seal\_cleaner](#): > > Police are tasked with protecting the few from the many. This is hogwash. You’ve watched Robocop too many times. Overwhelming majority of Americans are law abiding citizens. Police are tasked with keeping order, peace, and enforcing the laws that the people put in place. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-democracy-you-tend-to-get-the-kind-of-law-enforcement-you-deserve/717205/23 "2015-04-09T20:25:21Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I don’t buy the use of “deserve” to describe democratic outcomes. It seems unhelpful to tell someone they “deserve” the effects of public stupidity. For an individual it won’t sit well. For ‘us’ as whole it is quite appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-democracy-you-tend-to-get-the-kind-of-law-enforcement-you-deserve/717205/24 "2015-04-09T20:27:52Z")
I’s like to add the term [Institulionised Racism](http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/apr/21/metropolitan-police-institutionally-racist-black) to the thread - not to provoke an argument or corner, just to display the way other countries have had similar difficulties. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-democracy-you-tend-to-get-the-kind-of-law-enforcement-you-deserve/717205/25 "2015-04-10T03:50:44Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Can you quantify this a bit? Currently crime is at an all time low and we are incarcerating a record amount of our population. Hell, we incarcerate 4 times more people than China and we have 1/6th of their population. We’ve had a few cases the past couple years that caught my eye; mostly due to knowing people involved. One was a bank robber (one successful attempt and one failed) who got four years and did basically a year and a half. Another is a repeat offender with a long background of violence who finally went all the way; he’s now up on murder. With the attorney he has I’m betting it gets pleaded down to manslaughter and he does a nickel. Get nailed on drugs (even weed) or car theft and expect to do about all the time you get - and it will probably be a damn sight more than the armed robber in the next cell. Criminal justice system? Yeah – I’ll agree to that. The more professional and violent a criminal you are, the more justice you are going to be able to buy. And anyone behind a badge knows that for damn sure. If you don’t think that’s a frustration, Pit away - I never go around the place myself so I’m not going to care very much. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-democracy-you-tend-to-get-the-kind-of-law-enforcement-you-deserve/717205/26 "2015-04-10T04:26:19Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > The OP’s sentiments are garbage. Except for the underclass the poor are as law-abiding as everyone else. I suggest the OP ask poor victims of violent crime as to how they feel the offenders should be dealt with: I think overwhelmingly he would find the view that they should be locked up for long periods of time. (Conversely it is the upper middle class liberals who tend to think that these lower class predators should be dealt with lightly). This is bullshit. Liberals (in the main) believe the drug war is ineffective and damaging and are against criminalizing poverty. Violent crimes and property crimes should be punished to the full extent of the law according to every liberal I have ever heard. Liberals are also more justice and fairness oriented; they believe rich white people should do the same time as poor black people when they commit the same crimes. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-democracy-you-tend-to-get-the-kind-of-law-enforcement-you-deserve/717205/27 "2015-04-10T07:21:00Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Hell, we incarcerate 4 times more people than China and we have 1/6th of their population. I’m going to risk a fight where I really don’t have one but I’ve seen this China stat thrown around different places, and here on the Dope, to make a variety of points. Sooner or later I was bound to ask someone and you drew the short straw. I will admit not knowing the answers but I could probably take a SWAG at them if I had to. How many of the prisoners in China are repeat offenders? How many can expect early release or probation? What is their attitude on bail or plea bargains? What are their rules of evidence like? Forget Miranda - China isn’t the US after all. But in terms of sentence served for like crimes, how does their system compare to ours? Personally I think we have a lot more than two problems although I do agree your two are well among them. If we sat down and listed them for a poll to pick our favorites, we could probably come up with 30 or more. But it can’t be that their social and economic justice/standards are THAT much better than ours if at all. Could it be that criminal, as a deliberate or accidental career choice, is much less viable for their citizens than ours? ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-democracy-you-tend-to-get-the-kind-of-law-enforcement-you-deserve/717205/28 "2015-04-10T07:31:13Z")
**Kopek** , I’ve lived in China in two cities - Wuhan and Guangzhou, and I can’t answer your question, at all. I was friends with an editor of a national newspaper and she said she only edited what the Party told her to, I was friends with a church-goer and she did so in private - there were a spate of violent attacks at the time against Christians (back in 2006 - not sure if they’re ongoing). Everyone I met were law-abiding, the state there has to oversee 1,400,000,000 or so people of many different cultures and wants so I do see their point of view. Rebellions in China have occasionally happened, if you’re the government and a couple of million people, 300 miles away, decide you’re not good enough it can create some problems. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-democracy-you-tend-to-get-the-kind-of-law-enforcement-you-deserve/717205/29 "2015-04-10T17:28:44Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Can you quantify this a bit? Currently crime is at an all time low and we are incarcerating a record amount of our population. Hell, we incarcerate 4 times more people than China and we have 1/6th of their population. Surely you’re not advocating implementing the [Chinese criminal justice system](http://www.deathpenaltyworldwide.org/country-search-post.cfm?country=China)here… > [@](#): > > According to Amnesty International, China imposed 7003 death sentences in 2008, although this may be a significant underestimate. A 2009 estimate had China passing out about 140 sentences per week. > > The actual number of executions is a state secret. Human rights organizations estimate that China carries out thousands of executions a year, more than the rest of the world together. China executed at an estimated per capita rate of 1 per 450,000 citizens, the US at 1 per 9,028,571. Dead people don’t need to be incarcerated. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-democracy-you-tend-to-get-the-kind-of-law-enforcement-you-deserve/717205/30 "2015-04-11T23:25:56Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Given that America’s incarceration rates are the highest in the world, I’m going to say no. You might be mistaking a line from a Dirty Harry movie with reality. This is inaccurate. Incarceration happens after trial & conviction, which may be months after the offense was committed. Prior to that, bail is given for all but the most serious crimes. I believe kopek was referring to the belief of many police officers that the arestee will be out on bail before they have finished filling out the paperwork about the arrest (or nearly so). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-democracy-you-tend-to-get-the-kind-of-law-enforcement-you-deserve/717205.md?page=1)