# In a fight for your life, what are the limits, if any of what you could/would do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 25, 2019, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-fight-for-your-life-what-are-the-limits-if-any-of-what-you-could-would-do/837587 "2019-07-25T02:53:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-fight-for-your-life-what-are-the-limits-if-any-of-what-you-could-would-do/837587/61 "2019-07-28T16:45:08Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Your automatic assumption was that she was assaulting an animal. Mine was that she was (or felt she was) being assaulted by an animal. Interesting dichotomy. I suspect I’ve seen far more animal assaults than you. My assumption was based on Annie’s own words. She said the following: > [@Annie X-Mas](#): > > I once had a huge male dog stand up and put his front paws on my shoulders. \*\*I kneed his groin \*\*, and he went down on the sidewalk. Bolding mine. In what way does this not constitute assault? Now whether it was justified is what remains unclear, which is why I asked Annie for clarification, which she may or may not choose to give. Also, I don’t really see why you’re trying to pull rank by saying you’ve seen more animal assaults than I have. You’re a doctor, of course you have. At no point did I ever dismiss what kind of damage a dog can do. My dog policy has ALWAYS been “Any dog, no matter how sweet-tempered and gentle, has the potential to bite, so be careful not to provoke them in a way that makes them feel threatened.” Dogs can and have killed young children, and maimed adults. I get it. I never said otherwise. My point remains simply that there is nothing in Annie’s post that indicates why she felt kicking the dog was the correct course of action. If the dog did in fact growl, lunge, bare its teeth, or otherwise act aggressive, then she did what she had to do. But if he hopped up, put his paws on her shoulders, tail wagging, tongue out, doing that goofy dog grin, then I stand by what I said. Based on what she wrote, we don’t know which it was. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-fight-for-your-life-what-are-the-limits-if-any-of-what-you-could-would-do/837587/62 "2019-07-29T11:11:45Z")
One person’s “goofy dog grin” is another’s bare-toothed aggression. A non-dog-lover probably won’t be able to tell the difference when being pounced upon at short notice. I agree with the poster who implied a dog that does this other than on command is a poorly-trained dog not deserved by its owner. Was Annie supposed to wait and see if the dog was going to bite her face or merely lick it before deciding whether to defend herself? Not to mention that even being licked on the face is not something most of us enjoy, let alone by a large carnivore with unknowable motives. Back to the OP - I have a very strong survival instinct, which usually translates into bravely running away. I literally have no clue what I would do if truly cornered. Probably try to talk my way out of it. That not being an option, I suspect my experience would be similar to what Dung Beetle described - wanting to cause maximum harm in my own defence, but not being able to fully go through with it. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-fight-for-your-life-what-are-the-limits-if-any-of-what-you-could-would-do/837587/63 "2019-07-29T16:06:05Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > My assumption was based on Annie’s own words. She said the following: > > Bolding mine. In what way does this not constitute assault? Now whether it was justified is what remains unclear, which is why I asked Annie for clarification, which she may or may not choose to give. > > Also, I don’t really see why you’re trying to pull rank by saying you’ve seen more animal assaults than I have. You’re a doctor, of course you have. At no point did I ever dismiss what kind of damage a dog can do. My dog policy has ALWAYS been “Any dog, no matter how sweet-tempered and gentle, has the potential to bite, so be careful not to provoke them in a way that makes them feel threatened.” Dogs can and have killed young children, and maimed adults. I get it. I never said otherwise. > > My point remains simply that there is nothing in Annie’s post that indicates why she felt kicking the dog was the correct course of action. If the dog did in fact growl, lunge, bare its teeth, or otherwise act aggressive, then she did what she had to do. But if he hopped up, put his paws on her shoulders, tail wagging, tongue out, doing that goofy dog grin, then I stand by what I said. Based on what she wrote, we don’t know which it was. You called her actions reprehensible, unless she could justify them. I gave her the benefit of the doubt, knowing how folks react when confronted by a large animal. I assumed she acted in her own perceived self interest, and still do so, unless there’s evidence otherwise. As for my experience with dog attacks, it just serves to reinforce to me the degree of damage that dogs inflict on a regular basis, often on people who thought they were being friendly with a happy dog. If **Annie** comes back and says that she kicked the dog in the nuts because she was annoyed but not threatened by it, or because she just thought it was fun, I will condemn her actions. Until then, I will continue to assume she acted out of a combination of reflex and fear. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-fight-for-your-life-what-are-the-limits-if-any-of-what-you-could-would-do/837587/64 "2019-07-29T16:30:19Z")
I should also add two things: Having seen firsthand all too often the results of dog attacks, I will never condemn someone who reacts violently out of fear to a perceived attack from a dog. And I speak as a longtime dog owner, whose current dog is a rescue dog with attack tendencies (fortunately directed not at humans, but all other dogs. He adores cats tho). Also, I do wish **Annie** would clarify her comments. ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-fight-for-your-life-what-are-the-limits-if-any-of-what-you-could-would-do/837587/65 "2019-07-29T16:43:58Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > You called her actions reprehensible, unless she could justify them. I gave her the benefit of the doubt, knowing how folks react when confronted by a large animal. I assumed she acted in her own perceived self interest, and still do so, unless there’s evidence otherwise. > > As for my experience with dog attacks, it just serves to reinforce to me the degree of damage that dogs inflict on a regular basis, often on people who thought they were being friendly with a happy dog. > > If **Annie** comes back and says that she kicked the dog in the nuts because she was annoyed but not threatened by it, or because she just thought it was fun, I will condemn her actions. Until then, I will continue to assume she acted out of a combination of reflex and fear. Fair enough. Thanks for the response. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-fight-for-your-life-what-are-the-limits-if-any-of-what-you-could-would-do/837587/66 "2019-07-31T15:35:04Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Thanks for that. He’s actually learning a lot about what tension looks like, which is good because he’s typically slow to pick up on social queues. He’s kind of excited as he’s starting to understand his past altercations, how they developed, and what part he played in unintentionally escalating them. And he’s a stocky troll with a creepy high pain tolerance. He gets stung in class from time to time, but to actually injure him would probably require a gun. He should read _Facing Violence: Preparing for the Unexpected_ by Rory Miller. It goes a lot into what he terms the ‘monkey dance’ – the power strutting people do and won’t back down from, and how that escalates conflicts that could have been walked away from. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-fight-for-your-life-what-are-the-limits-if-any-of-what-you-could-would-do/837587/67 "2019-07-31T16:23:54Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > If you are really, and I mean\* really\* fighting for your life there are no rules and nothing should be held back. You have only a few minutes of life left. > > Compound fracture of broken arm with raw bones sticking out? Ram the sharp bone ends into their neck, rip off your hand and stuff it down their throat. Anything and everything that you can do for one more minute of life. > > But it is very difficult to convince yourself that it is really the moment of last resort, so people are in some way, always holding something back. Humans can be very vicious and selfish and only concerned about themselves. > > If you are fighting for your life you have to be that vicious human. Honor and concern for others is a good way to die with honor. To abandon all morals and survive, that is very difficult. Great post! +1 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-fight-for-your-life-what-are-the-limits-if-any-of-what-you-could-would-do/837587.md?page=3)