# in a government background check, are elementary school permanent records sought? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 9, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377 "2009-09-09T02:45:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![goemon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bcef8e/32.png) [@goemon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/goemon)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/1 "2009-09-09T02:45:20Z")
i know government agencies have the most in-depth background checks for employment and no doubt they will check my high school records since permanent records must be kept by schools for 60 years, but will they also seek elementary school permanent records? ---
**Author:** ![LiveOnAPlane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@LiveOnAPlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiveOnAPlane)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/2 "2009-09-09T03:22:17Z")
For just employment, I have never heard of this. I personally haven’t had them even check my high school records. Now for a security clearance, things may be different. The higher the clearance, the more detialed the background check. I can’t say as to going back to elementary school, though. Someone more knowledgeable than I will have to address that one. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/3 "2009-09-09T03:37:32Z")
They only check to make sure you actually went to that school, afaik. The “Permanent Record” is mostly a scare tactic. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/4 "2009-09-09T04:15:01Z")
> [@goemon](#): > > … records must be kept by schools for 60 years… Who says so? This is going to vary from school district to school district. Probably the only records kept over 20 years or so are the period of enrollment and graduation from high school. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/5 "2009-09-09T04:27:15Z")
I’ve never heard of anybody acquiring the feared elementary through high school permanent record even with the power of a civil subpoena. Well, I know that cannot be done. A criminal lawyer ought to be able to expand on whether it can be done in a criminal context, but I seriously doubt it. I’ve heard that they can get your juvenile criminal, but can’t make any part public, etc. I’d offer my brother who had a top security clearance, but I’d know no way of finding out if they ever looked. He had nothing as a youth to warrant any concern. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/6 "2009-09-09T04:42:33Z")
I’m pretty sure that my background check form did not call for information from that long ago. My recollection is that it went back ten years. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/7 "2009-09-09T05:40:35Z")
“I’m sorry, Commander Bond, but I’m afraid your License to Kill is on hold until we can clear up that ‘Noodle Incident’ from the 2nd grade.” ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/8 "2009-09-09T05:48:07Z")
I had a criminal background check/apostille for my present job; they weren’t all that interested in anything prior to college. I got my records from high school and nobody wanted to look at them. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/9 "2009-09-09T13:35:00Z")
> [@goemon](#): > > … since permanent records must be kept by schools for 60 years … This is not true at all in the case of my old high school. They only keep full records for just a few years after graduation. It is considered a security risk and a lawsuit liability to keep them very long. (E.g., the record says that Mr. Mackey found you doing Something Bad and you were suspended. You find out 20 years later it’s on your record and decide it’s false so you sue for libel. Meanwhile, Mr. Mackey has retired/died/disappeared and they can’t prove it’s true.) There is nothing remotely like a “permanent record”. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/10 "2009-09-09T13:38:51Z")
[Very similar thread from a few months ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=523655&highlight=permanent), for your reference. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/11 "2009-09-09T15:33:18Z")
When I had my Federal security check, I was 22 years old and it went back 15 years. I did a FOIA request for the records afterwards, and there was nothing whatsoever from my schools other than an indication that I did attend the college I had said that I attended. They did interview people I knew while in college, though. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/12 "2009-09-09T16:34:59Z")
What if the former student authorizes their release? Say, you have a politician and there’s a rumor going around that he failed third grade arithmetic. Could the politician authorize the school to set the record straight? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/13 "2009-09-09T16:35:57Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > “I’m sorry, Commander Bond, but I’m afraid your License to Kill is on hold until we can clear up that ‘Noodle Incident’ from the 2nd grade.” I would have thought the Salamander Incident would have left him ineligible anyways… ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/14 "2009-09-19T03:24:22Z")
In order to get a security clearance for national security purposes in the United States, you fill out an SF-86 (standard form 86). Depending on the agency, you provide information going back 7 or 10 years, back to your 18th birthday.\* They don’t ask any questions about what you did before you were 18. So, barring very special circumstances, the federales won’t be interested in how you put a pin on Mrs. Beck’s chair when you were in 4th grade. - Or 15, according to **Eva Luna** ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/15 "2009-09-19T13:52:26Z")
I think the concept of one having a “permanent record” is largely fiction. I was in six different school systems by the time I started high school (and probably had at least that many pediatricians). I doubt that any single repository has a complete record of my education or medical history, and my case is not unique. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/16 "2009-09-19T16:01:46Z")
> [@Tenebras](#): > > In order to get a security clearance for national security purposes in the United States, you fill out an SF-86 (standard form 86). Depending on the agency, you provide information going back 7 or 10 years, back to your 18th birthday.\* They don’t ask any questions about what you did before you were 18. So, barring very special circumstances, the federales won’t be interested in how you put a pin on Mrs. Beck’s chair when you were in 4th grade. > > - Or 15, according to **Eva Luna** They did ask what Elementary School you\* attended\*, iirc. But no details. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/17 "2009-09-19T22:42:07Z")
> [@Tenebras](#): > > In order to get a security clearance for national security purposes in the United States, you fill out an SF-86 (standard form 86). Depending on the agency, you provide information going back 7 or 10 years, back to your 18th birthday.\* They don’t ask any questions about what you did before you were 18. So, barring very special circumstances, the federales won’t be interested in how you put a pin on Mrs. Beck’s chair when you were in 4th grade. > > - Or 15, according to **Eva Luna** Mine was done in 1991, so for all I know, things might have changed since then. And it may depend on the level of clearance. They definitely wanted me to go back 15 years, which in my case was back to the age of 7, even when I mentioned how ridiculous that was. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/18 "2009-09-19T23:09:21Z")
I thought the old school teacher threat of “going on your permanent record” was pure BS. There’s no such thing, and if there was, the storage space would be something like the Astrodome. ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-government-background-check-are-elementary-school-permanent-records-sought/509377/19 "2009-09-22T03:33:20Z")
I just did mine this spring. The instructions on the form said 7 years, but there were supplementary instructions which specified 10 years. Almost all of the sections had the caveat that if it happened more than 10 years prior or before your 18th birthday, they didn’t care. (Almost all in this context means with the possible exceptions of prior security clearances and felonies.) Working out addresses from 10 years ago was a major pain in the ass. I ended up using Google street view to pick the building numbers off the side of my old apartment…