# In a libertarian society... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458 "2011-10-12T20:27:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/341 "2011-10-25T16:40:30Z")
And seriously, what’s to stop me from building a pool of mercury in Libertaria? Mercury is a natural element, it’s my property, and I’ll have the coolest pool parties in town. Who’s gonna stop me? What are you gonna do? Regulate a naturally occurring element?! Besides, I’ll buy contamination insurance too, so when it leaks into the ground, and ends up in yours and all my neighbor’s water and soil, I’ll be just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/342 "2011-10-25T16:42:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Just because there were no studies conducted doesn’t mean you throw logic out of the window. Your “logic” is non-functional. You are wrong. Regulations that mandate mask use by the public would not reduce influenza death. Continuing to argue that they would “just because” is simply foolish. You are effectively making libertarianism look foolish here. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/343 "2011-10-25T16:47:14Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Your “logic” is non-functional. You are wrong. Regulations that mandate mask use by the public would not reduce influenza death. … just because you say so. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/344 "2011-10-25T16:48:15Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > And seriously, what’s to stop me from building a pool of mercury in Libertaria? Most probably local government regulations would. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/345 "2011-10-25T16:51:21Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Most probably local government regulations would. _ **Tyranny!!!** _ ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/346 "2011-10-25T16:54:35Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Ya, OK :rolleyes: Did you notice that this advice was only _during an Influenza Pandemic_? Do you know what a pandemic is? > > Please provide a cite that shows that wearing of facemasks by infected persons would reduce the death rate of influenza by 50%. > > Alternatively, retract your foolish statement. > **[Mask use, hand hygiene, and seasonal influenza-like illness among young...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20088690/)** > > ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT00490633. We observed significant reductions in ILI during weeks 4-6 in the mask and hand hygiene group, compared with the control group, ranging from 35% (confidence interval [CI], 9%-53%) to 51% (CI, 13%-73%), after adjusting for vaccination and other covariates. Face mask use alone showed a similar reduction in ILI compared with the control group, but adjusted estimates were not statistically significant. Neither face mask use and hand hygiene nor face mask use alone was associated with a significant reduction in the rate of ILI cumulatively. ================================== Cool. Hand hygiene should be similarly legislated. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/347 "2011-10-25T16:57:48Z")
Did it reduce the death rate of influenza by 50%? No? Cite fail. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/348 "2011-10-25T17:01:55Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Did it reduce the death rate of influenza by 50%? It reduced infection rate by up to 50%. You reduce the infection rate, you reduce the death rate. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/349 "2011-10-25T17:06:03Z")
Terr, your cite says that the facemask using group was not different in ILI rate from the control group. I admit that with your last assertion and your presentation of evidence against your own assertion, I’ve lost track at this point about the direction of your argument and its relevance. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/350 "2011-10-25T17:10:51Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Terr, your cite says that the facemask using group was not different in ILI rate from the control group. But the facemask+hand hygiene group showed 30-50% reduction. As I said, that just shows that hand hygiene should be legislated as well. You know, “if it saves just one life”… Oh and I forgot - children! What about the children? If you’re against the mask/handwashing legislation, that means you want children to die. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/351 "2011-10-25T17:14:46Z")
What Terr is trying to get across here is that,\* if you regulate anything, you should regulate everything. And since regulating everything would be bad, no regulations would be best!\* It’s not what you call a reasonable framing of the issue. In fact it’s pretty darn shitty. But since arguing logically for this is impossible, he has to divert the issue to random nonsense, like legislating face masks for the populace. That way, if he wins the random nonsense argument (by stamina) then he can try to sideways suggest he won the overall argument. This doesn’t make the failed ideology of Libertarianism look like anything but a shambles of assertions and wishful thinking. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/352 "2011-10-25T17:15:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Most probably local government regulations would. …Second verse, same as the first!.. Bring on the next failed ideology… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/353 "2011-10-25T17:22:20Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > What Terr is trying to get across here is that,\* if you regulate anything, you should regulate everything. And since regulating everything would be bad, no regulations would be best!\* > > It’s not what you call a reasonable framing of the issue. In fact it’s pretty darn shitty. But since arguing logically for this is impossible, he has to divert the issue to random nonsense, like legislating face masks for the populace. > > That way, if he wins the random nonsense argument (by stamina) then he can try to sideways suggest he won the overall argument. > > This doesn’t make the failed ideology of Libertarianism look like anything but a shambles of assertions and wishful thinking. Nice summary. It’s almost comical to watch. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/354 "2011-10-25T17:24:22Z")
I think this thread actually got us somewhere: 1. Local and federal governments are a must. 2. Taxation, excising, volunteering and/or charity is a must. 3. Insurance is a must to curb financial ruin against forces out of your control. 4. Regulations set by the government are a must to prevent socio-economic disaster and pollution. 5. Certain behaviors and activities must be decreed illegal so any breach of the above by an individual can be penalized. 6. Unchecked and unbalanced power leads to a society that resembles Stephen King’s _The Stand._ 7. Freedom must be balanced with morals or you end up a libertarian. What did I miss? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/355 "2011-10-25T17:36:36Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I think this thread actually got us somewhere: > > 1. Local and federal governments are a must. > > 2. Taxation, excising, volunteering and/or charity is a must. > > 3. Insurance is a must to curb financial ruin against forces out of your control. > > 4. Regulations set by the government are a must to prevent socio-economic disaster and pollution. > > 5. Certain behaviors and activities must be decreed illegal so any breach of the above by an individual can be penalized. > > 6. Unchecked and unbalanced power leads to a society that resembles Stephen King’s _The Stand._ > > 7. Freedom must be balanced with morals or you end up a libertarian. > > What did I miss? Don’t do anything, because you might cause a tornado to suddenly appear on the other side of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/356 "2011-10-25T17:48:25Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I think this thread actually got us somewhere: > > 1. Local and federal governments are a must. > > 2. Taxation, excising, volunteering and/or charity is a must. > > 3. Insurance is a must to curb financial ruin against forces out of your control. > > 4. Regulations set by the government are a must to prevent socio-economic disaster and pollution. > > 5. Certain behaviors and activities must be decreed illegal so any breach of the above by an individual can be penalized. > > 6. Unchecked and unbalanced power leads to a society that resembles Stephen King’s _The Stand._ > > 7. Freedom must be balanced with morals or you end up a libertarian. > > What did I miss? LOL. Not like I expected to change your mind. You keep clinging to the “the Big Daddy government knows better than the little people what’s good for them” doctrine. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/357 "2011-10-25T17:50:03Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > LOL. Not like I expected to change your mind. You keep clinging to the “the Big Daddy government knows better than the little people what’s good for them” doctrine. Really, it’s very simple. Of, by and for. That’s all you need to understand. Of, by and for. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/358 "2011-10-25T18:07:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > LOL. Not like I expected to change your mind. You keep clinging to the “the Big Daddy government knows better than the little people what’s good for them” doctrine. The scientists working at the CDC sure as hell know a lot more about disease transmission than you do at any rate. And you just used “LOL”. This is sad. I am now free to discount anything you say. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/359 "2011-10-25T18:12:57Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The scientists working at the CDC sure as hell know a lot more about disease transmission than you do at any rate. Yep. And they say that it gets transmitted by sneezing and coughing. Which is exactly what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/360 "2011-10-25T18:26:05Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yep. And they say that it gets transmitted by sneezing and coughing. Which is exactly what I said. No, you claimed: > [@](#): > > 40,000 deaths that could be prevented by a simple law requiring everyone wear masks. Post 322 and > [@](#): > > They would reduce them by half at least if not more. You’re willing to kill 20k people a year to preserve your precious freedom to walk around without a mask? Post 325 You are wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=19)