# In a libertarian society... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458 "2011-10-12T20:27:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/361 "2011-10-25T18:28:23Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You are wrong. You are entitled to your opinion. Bless your heart 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/362 "2011-10-25T18:28:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yep. And they say that it gets transmitted by sneezing and coughing. Which is exactly what I said. You claimed that mandating masks in public would lower fatalities by 50%. And even if that were true, it wouldn’t make Libertarianism any more reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/363 "2011-10-25T18:34:44Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You claimed that mandating masks in public would lower fatalities by 50%. Yes. Since transmission is through “virus-laden large droplets (particles \>5 µm in diameter) that are generated when infected persons cough or sneeze”, masks, properly worn, would definitely reduce transmission. Thus reducing fatalities. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/364 "2011-10-25T18:36:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. Since transmission is through “virus-laden large droplets (particles \>5 µm in diameter) that are generated when infected persons cough or sneeze”, masks, properly worn, would definitely reduce transmission. Thus reducing fatalities. Do you have any cites to studies that do NOT undermine your argument? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/365 "2011-10-25T18:37:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. Since transmission is through “virus-laden large droplets (particles \>5 µm in diameter) that are generated when infected persons cough or sneeze”, masks, properly worn, would definitely reduce transmission. Thus reducing fatalities. So it’s gone from 40,000 to 20,000 to “reducing fatalities”. And this proves that libertarianism is a good thing how again? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/366 "2011-10-25T18:42:12Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Do you have any cites to studies that do NOT undermine your argument? See above. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/367 "2011-10-25T18:42:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. Since transmission is through “virus-laden large droplets (particles \>5 µm in diameter) that are generated when infected persons cough or sneeze”, masks, properly worn, would definitely reduce transmission. Thus reducing fatalities. Would people wear the masks indoors? But it doesn’t matter, because there is no way this sort of law would ever pass. In any case, regardless of whatever random distraction you post, it doesn’t make Libertarianism suddenly anything but a fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/368 "2011-10-25T18:43:12Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > So it’s gone from 40,000 to 20,000 to “reducing fatalities”. I gave you the study that showed up to 50% reduction in transmission. Now - if there is a 50% reduction in transmission, what reduction in fatalities would you expect? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/369 "2011-10-25T18:52:07Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I gave you the study that showed up to 50% reduction in transmission. Now - if there is a 50% reduction in transmission, what reduction in fatalities would you expect? I don’t make guesses. And neither do the scientists at the CDC. > [@](#): > > Information on the use of facemasks and respirators for the control of pandemic influenza in community settings is extremely limited. Thus, it is difficult to assess their potential effectiveness in controlling influenza in these settings. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/370 "2011-10-25T19:32:00Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > See above. the only one you produced so far showed no effect for the mask condition. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/371 "2011-10-25T19:39:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > LOL. Not like I expected to change your mind. You keep clinging to the “the Big Daddy government knows better than the little people what’s good for them” doctrine. Please indicate where anyone said anything even close to this. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/372 "2011-10-25T20:15:49Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > the only one you produced so far showed no effect for the mask condition. It showed the 50% reduction in transmission for mask+hand hygiene. But not for either separately. So great - legislate both. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/373 "2011-10-25T20:20:08Z")
It’s also pointless to ask how many deaths there are _right now_ due to antibiotic-resistant germs, because _right now_ we have regulations about antibiotic abuse. The real relevant question is how many deaths there _would_ be, if we repealed the regulations. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/374 "2011-10-25T20:21:47Z")
You’re now trying to say that legislating hand washing is the same as restricting unfettered access to antibiotic drugs for those who don’t need them. OK then. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/375 "2011-10-25T20:31:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It’s also pointless to ask how many deaths there are _right now_ due to antibiotic-resistant germs, because _right now_ we have regulations about antibiotic abuse. The real relevant question is how many deaths there _would_ be, if we repealed the regulations. Yes, Chicken Little, that is the question. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/376 "2011-10-25T20:51:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, Chicken Little, that is the question. You know, once someone resorts to name calling in the Great Debates forum, that’s when you know the debate part is over. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/377 "2011-10-25T20:57:05Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, Chicken Little, that is the question. Are there other areas of science you choose to ignore? Do you fuel your car with water or eat small ball bearings as snacks? This needs to be mentioned explicitly: You are willing to ignore facts (like antibiotic resistance) to preserve your ideology. That’s not right. You’re like a creationist disregarding evolution because it is inconvenient. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/378 "2011-10-25T21:00:44Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > This needs to be mentioned explicitly: You are willing to ignore facts (like antibiotic resistance) to preserve your ideology. Wrong. Point to one statement of mine that “ignores antibiotic resistance”. Chronos asked “how many [more] deaths there would be, if we repealed the regulations”. I am asking “how many [fewer] deaths there would be, if you mandated masks/hand hygiene”. If you think Chronos’s question is relevant, then so is mine. And neither is fully answerable until you either repeat the regulations in first case or mandate stuff in second. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/379 "2011-10-25T21:02:26Z")
**Terr,** why use face-masks when we could rightfully be swallowing antibiotics like tic-tacs? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/380 "2011-10-25T21:06:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, Chicken Little, that is the question. I gave you a note earlier today about insulting comments. I guess it didn’t sink in, so this is a formal warning: insults are only allowed in the Pit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=20)