# In a libertarian society... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458 "2011-10-12T20:27:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/381 "2011-10-25T21:24:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > LOL. Not like I expected to change your mind. You keep clinging to the “the Big Daddy government knows better than the little people what’s good for them” doctrine. No, it’s just that these “freedoms” you seem to be holding high are the very reasons our current government evolved to the way we see it today. Do I believe there needs to be a ton of reform on various aspects of the government and agencies? Absolutely. But going back to the wild west isn’t the answer. And certainly setting up a government that is largely (or almost exclusively) reactive and punitive, instead of a balance of reactive, proactive, preventative, and punitive is pure madness. Like **Hentor the Barbarian** said, a government _of_ the people, _for_ the people and _by_ the people. Those three prepositions aren’t in the Gettysburg Address by mistake, and “for” seems like a tough one for a lot of people to choke down. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/382 "2011-10-25T21:57:48Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > 1. Unchecked and unbalanced power leads to a society that resembles Stephen King’s _The Stand._ > > What did I miss? just substitute Brave New World in this one. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/383 "2011-10-25T22:07:17Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [Mask use, hand hygiene, and seasonal influenza-like illness among young adults: a randomized intervention trial - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20088690) > > We observed significant reductions in ILI during weeks 4-6 in the mask and hand hygiene group, compared with the control group, ranging from 35% (confidence interval [CI], 9%-53%) to 51% (CI, 13%-73%), after adjusting for vaccination and other covariates. Face mask use alone showed a similar reduction in ILI compared with the control group, but adjusted estimates were not statistically significant. Neither face mask use and hand hygiene nor face mask use alone was associated with a significant reduction in the rate of ILI cumulatively. > > ================================== > > Cool. Hand hygiene should be similarly legislated. I call your specific attention to the parts saying “adjusted estimates were not statistically significant” and " Neither face mask use and hand hygiene nor face mask use alone was associated with a significant reduction in the rate of ILI cumulatively." It strongly suggests that “weeks 4-6” were some kind of abberation in the data. Regardless, your cite clearly does nothing to support the assertions you make for reduction in flu mortality. Nor does your flu analogy do anything to support libertarianism. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/384 "2011-10-25T22:15:55Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > just substitute Brave New World in this one. Or _1984._ Despite the ugly mess we’re in, I don’t see our country converting to an authoritarian government anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/385 "2011-10-25T22:17:09Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > I call your specific attention to the parts saying “adjusted estimates were not statistically significant” and " Neither face mask use and hand hygiene nor face mask use alone was associated with a significant reduction in the rate of ILI cumulatively." It strongly suggests that “weeks 4-6” were some kind of abberation in the data. Explain this: CONCLUSIONS: These findings suggest that face masks and hand hygiene may reduce respiratory illnesses in shared living settings and mitigate the impact of the influenza A(H1N1) pandemic. > [@](#): > > Regardless, your cite clearly does nothing to support the assertions you make for reduction in flu mortality. Reducing spread of influenza reduces mortality. > [@](#): > > Nor does your flu analogy do anything to support libertarianism. IYO. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/386 "2011-10-25T22:18:09Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Or _1984._ > > Despite the ugly mess we’re in, I don’t see our country converting to an authoritarian government anytime soon. I definitely see it happening. You probably never lived under one. I did. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/387 "2011-10-25T22:21:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I definitely see it happening. You probably never lived under one. I did. Talk about the sky falling. Which one, if I may ask? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/388 "2011-10-25T22:23:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Explain this: CONCLUSIONS: These findings suggest that face masks and hand hygiene may reduce respiratory illnesses in **shared living settings** and mitigate the impact of the influenza A(H1N1) pandemic. > Reducing spread of influenza reduces mortality. Explanation bolded for your convenience. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/389 "2011-10-25T22:24:10Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Talk about the sky falling. > > Which one, if I may ask? USSR. And the Democrats’ rhetoric (and some Republican as well) more and more is starting to resemble the Soviets. I am not the only one who grew up in USSR who thinks that. Lots of people I know who grew up there and live here now agree. Used to be United States was the place to escape to. Now there is nowhere to run. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/390 "2011-10-25T22:26:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Used to be United States was the place to escape to. Now there is nowhere to run. I hear the government in Somalia is very weak, hardly a burden at all. Perhaps you would be happier there? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/391 "2011-10-25T22:27:44Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Explanation bolded for your convenience. Thanks. You beat me to it – pointing out the obvious, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/392 "2011-10-25T22:27:50Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I hear the government in Somalia is very weak, hardly a burden at all. Perhaps you would be happier there? yeah yeah yeah. How original of you. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/393 "2011-10-25T22:28:55Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Explanation bolded for your convenience. “Shared living settings”. Like urban environments. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/394 "2011-10-25T22:30:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “Shared living settings”. Like urban environments. No, like nursing homes and hospitals. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/395 "2011-10-25T22:30:21Z")
Anyone who can say with a straight face and no irony that the U.S. now resembles the USSR is on some serious reality-bending medication. Regulation of some things does not mean totalitarianism, no matter how much you’d like to try to redefine your terms. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/396 "2011-10-25T22:31:38Z")
The Bill of Rights are so ingrained in this country, not only being part of the constitution itself, but as common ideals, it’s hard to imagine the sort of regime it would take to overturn these and create a significant army that would result in that sort of backwards revolution. De-revolution? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/397 "2011-10-25T22:35:28Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > The Bill of Rights are so ingrained in this country, not only being part of the constitution itself, but as common ideals, it’s hard to imagine the sort of regime it would take to overturn these and create a significant army that would result in that sort of backwards revolution. De-revolution? Look up Soviet Constitution some time. It’s probably online somewhere. Read it. Wonderful rights for everyone. Rights to freedom of speech, assembly, press, religion. Rights to work, to vacation, to health care, to old age care, to education, to housing, to whatever… Kinda reminds me of what OWS people are clamoring for. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/398 "2011-10-25T22:38:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Kinda reminds me of what OWS is demanding. Wha…!!! Someone actually knows what OWS is demanding? ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/399 "2011-10-25T22:57:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Look up Soviet Constitution some time. It’s probably online somewhere. Read it. Wonderful rights for everyone. Rights to freedom of speech, assembly, press, religion. Rights to work, to vacation, to health care, to old age care, to education, to housing, to whatever… > > Kinda reminds me of what OWS people are clamoring for. I wouldn’t vote for a Libertarian Party for the same (yet opposite) reasons I wouldn’t vote for any Socialist or Communist Party. They don’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/400 "2011-10-25T23:00:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > yeah yeah yeah. How original of you. What an amazing counter argument. I’m so impressed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=21)