# In a libertarian society... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458 "2011-10-12T20:27:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/401 "2011-10-25T23:44:48Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Initiation of force is not legal in Libertaria. “Sexual harassment” isn’t. Wait wait. Are you saying black mailing someone into having sex with you against their will isn’t rape? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/402 "2011-10-26T00:03:31Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Wait wait. Are you saying black mailing someone into having sex with you against their will isn’t rape? “Have sex with me or I will fire you” is not blackmail. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/403 "2011-10-26T00:09:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “Have sex with me or I will fire you” is not blackmail. It is coercion, however. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/404 "2011-10-26T00:13:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “Have sex with me or I will fire you” is not blackmail. Let’s add this to the list of how Libertopia would be a hellhole. There is no reason to institute a Libertarian society, because it causes more pain, more poverty, more suffering than our current system. And it adds nothing whatsoever in return. Other than making the rich, richer at least. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/405 "2011-10-26T00:22:33Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Let’s add this to the list of how Libertopia would be a hellhole. > > There is no reason to institute a Libertarian society, because it causes more pain, more poverty, more suffering than our current system. And it adds nothing whatsoever in return. Other than making the rich, richer at least. And all the heroin you want! Don’t forget the heroin! ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/406 "2011-10-26T00:24:00Z")
But really. I do kinda want a Mercury Pool. You can float bowling balls on that shit. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/407 "2011-10-26T00:24:16Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > It is coercion, however. You’re free to leave the job. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/408 "2011-10-26T00:39:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You’re free to leave the job. Why should anyone have to be sexually violated to keep their job? Maybe your system is retarded and evil, you ever think of that? Libertarians whine about government coercion, but here’s one advocating direct sexual coercion. Apparently taxes ares worse than rape, libertarians are so greedy. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/409 "2011-10-26T00:47:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You’re free to leave the job. The classic Libertarian response - “you’re free to [leave the job/move to another town/shop at a different store/etc.]” as if economic need or geographic restrictions never come into play. Some people ARE NOT free to leave a job. Some people ARE NOT free to move to another town if the Libertarian hellhole in which they live decides not to fund a police force. Some people DO NOT have the freedom to choose a different location. And those people would be sacrificed on the selfish altar of Libertarianism. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/410 "2011-10-26T01:15:28Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Why should anyone have to be sexually violated to keep their job? Maybe your system is retarded and evil, you ever think of that? No one should - as I pointed out before, when you get hired, you would sign a contract. That contract would contain, among others, the sexual harassment clause. In that case, when you’re harassed that’s breach of contract. If you didn’t bother to have such a contract (which would be pretty much boilerplate in Libertopia) then you can quit to avoid having sex with your boss. If this explanation is too complicated for you, then yes, we can go back to “libertarians advocate rape”. Whatever makes you happy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/411 "2011-10-26T01:23:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No one should - as I pointed out before, when you get hired, you would sign a contract. That contract would contain, among others, the sexual harassment clause. In that case, when you’re harassed that’s breach of contract. > > If you didn’t bother to have such a contract (which would be pretty much boilerplate in Libertopia) then you can quit to avoid having sex with your boss. > > If this explanation is too complicated for you, then yes, we can go back to “libertarians advocate rape”. Whatever makes you happy. See **Kolga** ’s response. You would take away safety nets. So that job may be that person’s sole source of money for shelter, and food. You saying “have sex or your kids starve” isn’t rape? ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/412 "2011-10-26T01:26:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No one should - as I pointed out before, when you get hired, you would sign a contract. That contract would contain, among others, the sexual harassment clause. In that case, when you’re harassed that’s breach of contract. > > If you didn’t bother to have such a contract (which would be pretty much boilerplate in Libertopia) then you can quit to avoid having sex with your boss. > > If this explanation is too complicated for you, then yes, we can go back to “libertarians advocate rape”. Whatever makes you happy. And why is this preferable to just making sexual harassment against the law? Oh right. “Freedom” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/413 "2011-10-26T01:32:11Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > And why is this preferable to just making sexual harassment against the law? > > Oh right. “Freedom” :rolleyes: Yes. Freedom. What a quaint, outdated concept. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/414 "2011-10-26T01:33:14Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > See **Kolga** ’s response. > > You would take away safety nets. So that job may be that person’s sole source of money for shelter, and food. > You saying “have sex or your kids starve” isn’t rape? Feel free to continue ignoring what I wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/415 "2011-10-26T01:34:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. Freedom. What a quaint, outdated concept. The freedom of the rich to rape the poor, you mean. Because the poor can quit their jobs now when sexually harassed. So you’re only really getting a leg up if you’re a business owner. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/416 "2011-10-26T01:42:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. Freedom. What a quaint, outdated concept. “Freedom” to sexually abuse is an outdated concept. Never quaint, though, just evil. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/417 "2011-10-26T01:56:03Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The freedom of the rich to rape the poor, you mean. Because the poor can quit their jobs now when sexually harassed. > > So you’re only really getting a leg up if you’re a business owner. Feel free to continue ignoring what I wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/418 "2011-10-26T01:59:26Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Feel free to continue ignoring what I wrote. I’m not \*ignoring \*it. I’m \*reading \*it. Perhaps you don’t understand what you’re saying? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/419 "2011-10-26T02:00:03Z")
So now we’ve gone to… If the government prevents me from being able to take antibiotic medications whenever I feel like it against a medical professional’s advice, doing me no good whatsoever, and contributing to the production of resistant strains that kill people… Then we’re just like the USSR! OK then. Oh, and more bolding for you: > [@](#): > > These findings **suggest** that face masks and hand hygiene **may** **reduce** respiratory illnesses in shared living settings and mitigate the impact of the influenza A(H1N1) pandemic. I’m not exactly seeing where they say that 20,000 lives/year will be saved by legislating masks/hand hygiene. Could you point it out for us? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/420 "2011-10-26T02:03:16Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Then we’re just like the USSR! Feel free to make up things, then respond to them. > [@](#): > > I’m not exactly seeing where they say that 20,000 lives/year will be saved by legislating masks/hand hygiene. Could you point it out for us? When you reduce the infection rate by 50%, you reduce the fatality rate by 50%. At least. Maybe more. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=22)