# In a libertarian society... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458 "2011-10-12T20:27:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/561 "2011-10-26T23:19:23Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Much like the Mafia. No. Mafia is an organization. You’d just be shot by the first person from whom you tried to steal. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/562 "2011-10-26T23:20:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You definitely don’t have to. But if you don’t recognize the right to property, you won’t survive long. But I thought he had a right to life. You saying you’d violate his right to life if he tried take your ipod? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/563 "2011-10-26T23:21:03Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > I’m just applying your own fallacious logic. > > You said rights didn’t have to be provided. You have no right to keep property, if others have to protect you from thieves. Others don’t. You protect yourself, or you hire others for protection - that is, you buy protection. In either case, it is your individual responsibility to arrange for protecting your rights. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/564 "2011-10-26T23:21:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No. Mafia is an organization. You’d just be shot by the first person from whom you tried to steal. Unless they were expecting Big Daddy government to take care of their stuff. Assuming they could afford to pay the police and courts, that is. > [@Terr](#): > > Others don’t. You protect yourself, or you hire others for protection - that is, you buy protection. In either case, it is your individual responsibility to arrange for protecting your rights. And this is different from anarchy how? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/565 "2011-10-26T23:22:23Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > Wow, someone wrote a book. I guess that settles it then. :rolleyes: I urge you to read that link. It explains the quasi-libertarianism that **Terr** seems to be promoting here. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/566 "2011-10-26T23:22:30Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > But I thought he had a right to life. You saying you’d violate his right to life if he tried take your ipod? By violating my right he is giving up his right. As I said before, only you yourself can give up your rights. That’s what he’d be doing. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/567 "2011-10-26T23:22:35Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No. Mafia is an organization. You’d just be shot by the first person from whom you tried to steal. Just like the Mafia. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/568 "2011-10-26T23:23:52Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Just like the Mafia. No. Mafia is an organization. You’d just be shot by the first person from whom you tried to steal. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/569 "2011-10-26T23:23:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Others don’t. You protect yourself, or you hire others for protection - that is, you buy protection. In either case, it is your individual responsibility to arrange for protecting your rights. So what’s the difference between that and anarchy? ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/570 "2011-10-26T23:24:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I urge you to read that link. It explains the quasi-liberalism that **Terr** seems to be promoting here. I don’t need to. I used to think exactly the same way **Terr** does. I literally used these exact same arguments. ETA: I did read the link, I don’t need to read the book. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/571 "2011-10-26T23:24:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No. Mafia is an organization. You’d just be shot by the first person from whom you tried to steal. I hear the Mafia does that too. True? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/572 "2011-10-26T23:25:05Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > By violating my right he is giving up his right. As I said before, only you yourself can give up your rights. That’s what he’d be doing. He never signed a contract. Are you saying there’s situations with implied consent to waive rights? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/573 "2011-10-26T23:25:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > By violating my right he is giving up his right. As I said before, only you yourself can give up your rights. That’s what he’d be doing. Do property rights trump the right to life itself? Are your possessions actually more valuable than the life of a fellow human being? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/574 "2011-10-26T23:25:33Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So what’s the difference between that and anarchy? Anarchy is absence of government. Government would exist. It would provide services that people would buy. It would not provide services that people didn’t buy. It would not force its services on people who didn’t want them. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/575 "2011-10-26T23:26:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do property rights trump the right to life itself? Are your possessions actually more valuable than the life of a fellow human being? Property right derives from right to life. When my rights are violated, the violator gives up his rights. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/576 "2011-10-26T23:27:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Anarchy is absence of government. Government would exist. It would provide services that people would buy. It would not provide services that people didn’t buy. It would not force its services on people who didn’t want them. That is not a government, its a cafeteria. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/577 "2011-10-26T23:27:43Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Anarchy is absence of government. Government would exist. It would provide services that people would buy. It would not provide services that people didn’t buy. It would not force its services on people who didn’t want them. So government wouldn’t actually be protecting these inalienable rights? If I’m poor and have no family, someone could kill me and suffer no consequences since no one would be willing or able to pay the police and courts to bring my murderer to justice? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/578 "2011-10-26T23:28:02Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I hear the Mafia does that too. True? Mafia is an organization. You’d be shot by an individual for trying to steal from him. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/579 "2011-10-26T23:29:33Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Mafia is an organization. You’d be shot by an individual for trying to steal from him. So, it’s a lot like the Mafia? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/580 "2011-10-26T23:30:45Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > So government wouldn’t actually be protecting these inalienable rights? If I’m poor and have no family, someone could kill me and suffer no consequences since no one would be willing or able to pay the police and courts to bring my murderer to justice? In theory, yes. In practice, for the very few cases like that, whatever governmental organizations exist would hunt you down and make you pay pro bono - because if they allowed you to continue, you would pose a danger to their subscribers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=30)