# In a libertarian society... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458 "2011-10-12T20:27:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/601 "2011-10-26T23:56:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Until a bigger one is there or several smaller ones join up. So what’s the point again? Until one side runs out of resources to keep growing their army. Can you really not see how this might be a problem? You might want to read this sometime: [Arms race - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_race) ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/602 "2011-10-26T23:58:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > We’re not talking about “rights”. We’re talking about services. Individual services, to be precise. So the “minority” would be one person. So would the “majority” be. What if the majority was paying the courts to always find them innocent when they committed crimes against the minority? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/603 "2011-10-26T23:59:30Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > Until one side runs out of resources to keep growing their army. Yep. At some point the cost of the army becomes higher than can be justified by what they are protecting. There’s your upper limit. But there is no upper limit to several smaller ones joining together. Thus the inadvisability of growing your own army instead of cooperating with others. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/604 "2011-10-26T23:59:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. Now - can an omnipotent being create an immovable object? No, but then neither omnipotent beings nor inalienable rights exist. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/605 "2011-10-27T00:00:25Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. Now - can an omnipotent being create an immovable object? By definition, omnipotence isn’t bound by the rules logic. So yes, an omnipotent being can create an object in a logically contradictory state of both being movable to it, and unmovable. Since you agree there’s actions other than contracts that count as a waiving of rights, then it’s simple to say choosing to enter or remain in a legal jurisdiction counts as implied consent to it’s laws, including tax laws. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/606 "2011-10-27T00:00:40Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > What if the majority was paying the courts to always find them innocent when they committed crimes against the minority? Did you miss the “individual services” part? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/607 "2011-10-27T00:01:44Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > No, but then neither omnipotent beings nor inalienable rights exist. “No” is not the correct answer. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/608 "2011-10-27T00:02:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Did you miss the “individual services” part? Ok, they pay the courts to always find in their favor in civil suits. Maybe you need to make it clear what you mean by “individual services”. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/609 "2011-10-27T00:02:46Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > What if the majority was paying the courts to always find them innocent when they committed crimes against the minority? It would have to be agreed upon by the majority and written into the social contract. The minority would of course have the right and freedom to give up their property and move elsewhere to a place where they _aren’t_ a minority. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/610 "2011-10-27T00:03:18Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > By definition, omnipotence isn’t bound by the rules logic. By whose definition? > [@](#): > > Since you agree there’s actions other than contracts that count as a waiving of rights, then it’s simple to say choosing to enter or remain in a legal jurisdiction counts as implied consent to it’s laws, including tax laws. Tax laws are not “rights”. Anything other than “rights” has to be covered by signed contracts. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/611 "2011-10-27T00:03:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “No” is not the correct answer. Ok, Yes, but then neither omnipotent beings nor inalienable rights exist. Happy? As **Tao** pointed out, it’s a pointless question since omnipotence isn’t bound by logic. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/612 "2011-10-27T00:04:29Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > Ok, they pay the courts to always find in their favor in civil suits. Maybe you need to make it clear what you mean by “individual services”. Each individual subscribes to the court/police system. Individually. The subscriber base is big enough that any one contribution is not enough to skew the system. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/613 "2011-10-27T00:05:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > By whose definition? > Tax laws are not “rights”. Anything other than “rights” has to be covered by signed contracts. Who decides what’s a “right” or not? You’ve claimed that these rights are axiomatic, so who picks the axioms? ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/614 "2011-10-27T00:06:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Each individual subscribes to the court/police system. Individually. The subscriber base is big enough that any one contribution is not enough to skew the system. Unless someone’s really rich or powerful, or lots of people join together. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/615 "2011-10-27T00:09:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Tax laws are not “rights”. Anything other than “rights” has to be covered by signed contracts. Says who? And why? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/616 "2011-10-27T00:09:54Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > Ok, Yes, but then neither omnipotent beings nor inalienable rights exist. Happy? “Yes” is not the correct answer either. > [@](#): > > As **Tao** pointed out, it’s a pointless question since omnipotence isn’t bound by logic. What happens if two inalienable rights conflict? The answer is the one that violates the other is forfeit. For some reason you don’t like the answer. Why? Seriously, this “discussion” has devolved into several posters desperately trying to come up with some kind of “gotcha”. It is kind of amusing. You ask what a “libertarian society” would do, then when you get the answer, you don’t like it. If you don’t like the answers, don’t ask the questions. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/617 "2011-10-27T00:10:55Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > Who decides what’s a “right” or not? You’ve claimed that these rights are axiomatic, so who picks the axioms? The Universe. The Creator. God. Pick whichever you like. Haven’t we done this already upthread? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/618 "2011-10-27T00:11:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “No” is not the correct answer. Then you weren’t asking the correct question. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/619 "2011-10-27T00:12:23Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > Unless someone’s really rich or powerful, or lots of people join together. If someone is “really rich and powerful”, can he jump the line in a supermarket? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/620 "2011-10-27T00:12:35Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The Universe. The Creator. God. Pick whichever you like. Haven’t we done this already upthread? And does God give us these rights directly, or do we have to depend on enlightened ones, such as yourself, to reveal them to us? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=32)