# In a libertarian society... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458 "2011-10-12T20:27:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/621 "2011-10-27T00:13:27Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Says who? And why? Says I and anyone who understands English. Is it your contention that “taxes” are “rights”? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/622 "2011-10-27T00:13:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You ask what a “libertarian society” would do, then when you get the answer, you don’t like it. So it is not up for debate? \ Somebody is in the wrong room. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/623 "2011-10-27T00:14:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And does God give us these rights directly, or do we have to depend on enlightened ones, such as yourself, to reveal them to us? Those rights exist. You can recognize it, or not. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/624 "2011-10-27T00:16:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Those rights exist. You can recognize it, or not. Government trumps the individual. You may recognize it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/625 "2011-10-27T00:16:11Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So it is not up for debate? > > \ > > Somebody is in the wrong room. Sure - but for what debate? You don’t like the answer - that’s not a debate. I get it, you don’t like the way the libertarian society would operate. How is that a debate? A debate would be someone coming in and suggesting that I was incorrect, and a libertarian society would operate differently. No one has yet done that. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/626 "2011-10-27T00:17:14Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Government trumps the individual. You may recognize it or not. I know you think so. You have expressed that idea enough times. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/627 "2011-10-27T00:17:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Those rights exist. You can recognize it, or not. Actually, I can recognize your authority in identifying and interpreting those rights…or not. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/628 "2011-10-27T00:19:25Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Says I and anyone who understands English. Is it your contention that “taxes” are “rights”? Taxes are duties. Says I. Now what? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/629 "2011-10-27T00:19:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Actually, I can recognize your authority in identifying and interpreting those rights…or not. You can lead a horse to water. You can’t make him drink. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/630 "2011-10-27T00:21:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > A debate would be someone coming in and suggesting that I was incorrect, and a libertarian society would operate differently. I never signed a contract agreeing to that definition. A debate is what I say it is. That is my cosmic right. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/631 "2011-10-27T00:22:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “Yes” is not the correct answer either. > What happens if two inalienable rights conflict? The answer is the one that violates the other is forfeit. For some reason you don’t like the answer. Why? > > Seriously, this “discussion” has devolved into several posters desperately trying to come up with some kind of “gotcha”. It is kind of amusing. You ask what a “libertarian society” would do, then when you get the answer, you don’t like it. If you don’t like the answers, don’t ask the questions. No, we’re trying to show you that a libertarian society wouldn’t work. > [@Terr](#): > > The Universe. The Creator. God. Pick whichever you like. Haven’t we done this already upthread? Why are we required to abide by your religious beliefs? > [@Terr](#): > > If someone is “really rich and powerful”, can he jump the line in a supermarket? Have you been to an airport lately? Many have separate lines for travelers who’ve paid to join some program that lets them get through security faster. Someone who’s willing to pay more can’t be a terrorist, I guess? I don’t see any reason why a supermarket couldn’t have a policy where they let frequent or big spending customers go to the front of the line. I know some theme parks do this. But what’s the point? Those are private businesses, not the government. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/632 "2011-10-27T00:23:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > A debate would be someone coming in and suggesting that I was incorrect, and a libertarian society would operate differently. No one has yet done that. That’s what people have been saying over and over. You just keep dismissing it with wishful thinking that the obvious problems wouldn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/633 "2011-10-27T00:28:22Z")
And getting back to this: > [@Terr](#): > > Yep. At some point the cost of the army becomes higher than can be justified by what they are protecting. There’s your upper limit. But there is no upper limit to several smaller ones joining together. Thus the inadvisability of growing your own army instead of cooperating with others. So it’s ok for someone with a bigger army to come take my stuff since it’s not worth it to me to build a bigger army to defend it? Assuming I can afford any kind of army in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/634 "2011-10-27T00:31:23Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > So it’s ok for someone with a bigger army to come take my stuff since it’s not worth it to me to build a bigger army to defend it? Assuming I can afford any kind of army in the first place? Clearly, since you could not attract other armies to join you, your property does not deserve defending. Sort of like why there has never been a libertarian society. The market has spoken. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/635 "2011-10-27T00:38:07Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You violated my property rights. You took something I own without my permission. Nope. This iPhone is mine. It’s in my hands. You may now sue me to get it back. Come to court with notarized, dated receipts, and you might see it next year. Except the judge is a business friend of mine, so maybe you won’t. Oh, and don’t even think of getting your privately hired police force to come and get me. I contract with the largest police protection service in the state, and they will not be too happy if you come after one of their clients. Of course, I could sell it to you right now for $20. Deal? ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/636 "2011-10-27T00:41:05Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Nope. This iPhone is mine. It’s in my hands. You may now sue me to get it back. Come to court with notarized, dated receipts, and you might see it next year. Except the judge is a business friend of mine, so maybe you won’t. > > Oh, and don’t even think of getting your privately hired police force to come and get me. I contract with the largest police protection service in the state, and they will not be too happy if you come after one of their clients. > > Of course, I could sell it to you right now for $20. Deal? I’ll give you $30 for it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/637 "2011-10-27T00:45:53Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > I’ll give you $30 for it. Done! Nice doing business with you. May property rights be with you always good sir! ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/638 "2011-10-27T00:48:28Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Done! > > Nice doing business with you. May property rights be with you always good sir! Yay! I hope no one has so little respect for my property rights that they try to take it away from me. I’ve been told it’s ok to shoot anyone who does. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/639 "2011-10-27T01:00:23Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > No, we’re trying to show you that a libertarian society wouldn’t work. Well, you’re not doing a very good job. > [@](#): > > Why are we required to abide by your religious beliefs? Who said you have to? > [@](#): > > Have you been to an airport lately? Many have separate lines for travelers who’ve paid to join some program that lets them get through security faster. Someone who’s willing to pay more can’t be a terrorist, I guess? Not if there is no extra fees for anything. > [@](#): > > I don’t see any reason why a supermarket couldn’t have a policy where they let frequent or big spending customers go to the front of the line. I know some theme parks do this. But what’s the point? Those are private businesses, not the government. Are there any supermarkets that do that? That’s exactly the point. They are private businesses, and they work with volume. You start allowing people to jump the line, you alienate your customers. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/640 "2011-10-27T01:01:54Z")
> [@kenetic](#): > > So it’s ok for someone with a bigger army to come take my stuff since it’s not worth it to me to build a bigger army to defend it? Assuming I can afford any kind of army in the first place? No it’s not ok. Isn’t that answer obvious? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=33)