# In a libertarian society... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458 "2011-10-12T20:27:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/741 "2011-10-27T17:13:00Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The prevailing attitude of this thread is such that it leads me to believe people are afraid of everything and everyone. And in order for people to lead their lives they must be protected from wronddoing at every turn. Maybe they were breast-fed until 5. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/742 "2011-10-27T17:28:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And I already told you, there are more “good guys” than “bad guys”. If this extremely simplistic viewpoint is how Libertarians see the world, then that explains some of the answers given in this thread. I guess Libertarians see their side as the “Good Guys”, and those with differing opinions as the “Bad Guys”. Coupled with this comment: > [@Terr](#): > > Maybe they were breast-fed until 5. , I am beginning to believe that intelligent discourse just isn’t possible. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/743 "2011-10-27T17:38:38Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The prevailing attitude of this thread is such that it leads me to believe people are afraid of everything and everyone. And in order for people to lead their lives they must be protected from wronddoing at every turn. No, but we know history better than you apparently do. Insult manhoods all you like, but any history book will show you the difference between pre- and post-regulatory society. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/744 "2011-10-27T17:40:27Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The prevailing attitude of this thread is such that it leads me to believe people are afraid of everything and everyone. And in order for people to lead their lives they must be protected from wronddoing at every turn. > > Do you know who is unafraid of anything? Infants. > [@Terr](#): > > Maybe they were breast-fed until 5. AHEM: > [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t want to see any more comments like this in this thread. From here on out, if you post a sarcastic personal comment, insult, or other derogatory remark, you’re getting a warning. I’m giving both of you formal warnings here. You cannot say other debaters are babies in this forum. If the two of you want to say non-libertarians are crybabies or fraidycats, post it in The BBQ Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/745 "2011-10-27T17:46:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If this extremely simplistic viewpoint is how Libertarians see the world, then that explains some of the answers given in this thread. I guess Libertarians see their side as the “Good Guys”, and those with differing opinions as the “Bad Guys”. Coupled with this comment:, I am beginning to believe that intelligent discourse just isn’t possible. Yes. There are more people who are willing to respect other people’s rights than there are those who want to violate them. Thus, your scenario is untenable. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/746 "2011-10-27T17:47:36Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And I already told you, there are more “good guys” than “bad guys”. My guys have helicopter gunships, body armor and RPG’s. Your guys have pistols and pointy sticks. I’ll stick with my guys, even though they are few. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/747 "2011-10-27T17:49:35Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. There are more people who are willing to respect other people’s rights than there are those who want to violate them. Thus, your scenario is untenable. Your statement is based upon the belief that everyone knows what rights you are referring to, agrees with your particular definition of those rights, and agrees that those rights are sacrosanct. Cite, please. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/748 "2011-10-27T17:49:44Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > And you ignore a government control of your life that is obvious. Basically, you see my argument as naive in the extreme. I see your argument as evidence of persecutory delusions. I don’t think we’re going to resolve anything here. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/749 "2011-10-27T17:59:01Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > My guys have helicopter gunships, body armor and RPG’s. Your guys have pistols and pointy sticks. Because you say so. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/750 "2011-10-27T18:00:38Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Basically, you see my argument as naive in the extreme. I see your argument as evidence of persecutory delusions. > > I don’t think we’re going to resolve anything here. Surprise! ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/751 "2011-10-27T18:01:36Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Under your authoritarian government, there could be eventually once the dangers have been established. Hey, watch out for that slippery slope! (“…_there could be eventually_…” arguments are so very persuasive.) > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > So why is space travel being developed now? The government? This paragraph makes no sense. Are you too young to remember Kennedy’s speech opening the “space race” in which he cast it as a matter of national pride and identity for which no defined economic returns were expected? And do you not recognize that the failure to show significant economic benefits that are clearly tied directly to the space program is one of the reasons for its diminishing support by the public? (No, I am not negating all the very real benefits; just stating that most people fail to recognize the origin.) ETA - Sorry this is late and now slightly out of sequence. I had to step outside to catch a rattlesnake. Yes, really. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/752 "2011-10-27T18:07:48Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Hey, watch out for that slippery slope! > > (“…_there could be eventually_…” arguments are so very persuasive.) > > Are you too young to remember Kennedy’s speech opening the “space race” in which he cast it as a matter of national pride and identity for which no defined economic returns were expected? And do you not recognize that the failure to show significant economic benefits that are clearly tied directly to the space program is one of the reasons for its diminishing support by the public? (No, I am not negating all the very real benefits; just stating that most people fail to recognize the origin.) > > ETA - Sorry this is late and now slightly out of sequence. I had to step outside to catch a rattlesnake. Yes, really. So now nationalism is admirable? Who is to say a market wouldn’t have emerged by now? You can’t rightfully say that it wouldn’t have. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/753 "2011-10-27T18:17:50Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > So now nationalism is admirable? > > Who is to say a market wouldn’t have emerged by now? You can’t rightfully say that it wouldn’t have. I wasn’t speaking for or against nationalism, I was simply discounting your argument that space exploration wasn’t begun and, until we start seeing more than an X version private space program, still is, “developed by the government”. As for an emerged market, no, I can’t speak authoritatively to a host of parallel universes. This isn’t a fantasy story. But in this universe there are no government regulations preventing the development of private space travel technologies. And yet no such market has yet developed. It is falacious to blame that lack on some kind of governmental interference or prohibition. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/754 "2011-10-27T19:02:30Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Sure. Because you think it is better to arrest someone before they commit the crime. You must have loved “Minority Report”. I’m not talking as if actual science is science fiction, like you are. We have developed very dangerous technologies where no matter how burley a beefcake you think you are, a 90 lb. nerd with asthma can take out thousands with the right weapon or materials. Why this kind of terrorism or even individual sociopathy is very unlikely now, is because these things are under strict regulations and highly guarded, whereas a citizen, group or organization will find it extremely difficult to obtain. With these regulations, restrictions and security removed, it would be much easier to smuggle enough U238 out of, say, a nuclear power plant. The rest is just clever academics and engineering. Why would you assume it’d take billions of dollars to do so? This isn’t to mention dirty bombs. And I’m just talking about the imminent threat of real technology. There are many factors besides hazardous materials where such regulations and security need to be employed. Why? Because we’ve gotten to the point where you can take out a city in an instant with just a few people. It’s not about how many muscles you have anymore. There’s much more at stake. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/755 "2011-10-27T19:21:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post > My guys have helicopter gunships, body armor and RPG’s. Your guys have pistols and pointy sticks. > [@Terr](#): > > Because you say so. Yes, I do say so. I got together the biggest bunch of guys I could and armed them with the best and most modern weapons. Because this is my right in this future libertarian land. I am exercising my right to hire whom I want to protect my property. My security firm is freakin awesome! Every time some upstart new company forms in the security field, my guys are so competitive, that company does not last long, I can tell you! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/756 "2011-10-27T19:33:26Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I’m not talking as if actual science is science fiction, like you are. > > We have developed very dangerous technologies where no matter how burley a beefcake you think you are, a 90 lb. nerd with asthma can take out thousands with the right weapon or materials. > > Why this kind of terrorism or even individual sociopathy is very unlikely now, is because these things are under strict regulations and highly guarded, whereas a citizen, group or organization will find it extremely difficult to obtain. > > With these regulations, restrictions and security removed, it would be much easier to smuggle enough U238 out of, say, a nuclear power plant. > > The rest is just clever academics and engineering. Why would you assume it’d take billions of dollars to do so? > > This isn’t to mention dirty bombs. And I’m just talking about the imminent threat of real technology. There are many factors besides hazardous materials where such regulations and security need to be employed. > > Why? Because we’ve gotten to the point where you can take out a city in an instant with just a few people. It’s not about how many muscles you have anymore. There’s much more at stake. I guess you missed my post before. Let me repeat: In a libertarian society, where would they get the “proper, scavenged materials”? Someone would have to produce those materials, spending billions to do it. So - why would someone do that, and if they did for some weird reason, why would they be so lax with their $billions investment that they would let someone else steal it? ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/757 "2011-10-27T19:34:15Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Say people start dropping out of the skys to theirdeath on these private excursions. Don’t you think the government you’re advocating will indeed place onerous regulations on these companies? Talk to [Dan Wheldon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Wheldon) about how the government is controlling every aspect of our lives and telling people they can’t engage in dangerous activities. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/758 "2011-10-27T19:34:38Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Yes, I do say so. I got together the biggest bunch of guys I could and armed them with the best and most modern weapons. Because this is my right in this future libertarian land. I am exercising my right to hire whom I want to protect my property. And the thousands of people around you, in order not to be intimidated by you, will get together and oppose you. And there are more of them than there are of you. Your fantasies notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/759 "2011-10-27T19:36:41Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And I already told you, there are more “good guys” than “bad guys”. Faith. Magical Thinking. No reason anyone should just accept this is true. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/760 "2011-10-27T19:38:45Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I guess you missed my post before. Let me repeat: > > In a libertarian society, where would they get the “proper, scavenged materials”? Someone would have to produce those materials, spending billions to do it. So - why would someone do that, and if they did for some weird reason, why would they be so lax with their $billions investment that they would let someone else steal it? Maybe I’m really good friends with the owner of the power plant, and since the government has no qualms, he’s actively involved with me and my friends in using these materials to gain economic or political advantage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=39)