# In a libertarian society... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458 "2011-10-12T20:27:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/901 "2011-10-29T18:31:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Really? Which side has more supporters: libertarianism, or representative democracy? The free market has chosen. Bazinga! Did I really just say bazinga? Yes, yes I did. I have that right (at least for now). ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/902 "2011-10-29T18:47:04Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > I suspect further that Libertarians have not had unjustified devastatingly bad things happen to them – _yet_. Those who have are no longer Libertarians. You’re right. Something bad just happened to me. So if I send you a PayPal account address, would you mind sending me $1000? Come to think if it, let’s make it a cool $2000. And if you want to send more, I wouldn’t mind. Thanks in advance. Once I receive your money, I’ll gladly renounce my libertarian beliefs and start agreeing with you and your colleagues on every one of your political points. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/903 "2011-10-29T18:51:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The limits are not a big deal. I am Israeli, I lived in Israel, I had a handgun, and for a while, depending on where I lived, I had an automatic weapon. Where did I get the idea that you emigrated from Russia to the U.S.? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/904 "2011-10-29T18:59:32Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > You’re right. Something bad just happened to me. > > So if I send you a PayPal account address, would you mind sending me $1000? Come to think if it, let’s make it a cool $2000. And if you want to send more, I wouldn’t mind. > > Thanks in advance. > > Once I receive your money, I’ll gladly renounce my libertarian beliefs and start agreeing with you and your colleagues on every one of your political points. I’m so sorry to hear that. However, you’ll be happy to learn that, assuming you live in the United States, we already have helped to provide you with the support you need. Just let us know what happened and what your needs are, and we will point you to the existing supportive resources that we have in place for you. The nice thing is that working together, we didn’t need to have one individual fork out $2,000 to help you. Of course, if this is a special circumstance and there isn’t any resource for your particular need, we’ll just set up a spaghetti dinner for charity in your name. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/905 "2011-10-29T19:03:05Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Why “hospitalization”? You can just detain people and force feed the antibiotics until the course is over. You say that’s a violation of their freedom? Sure, but we already established, in the other example, that it’s ok to violate people’s freedom in order to improve public health. I thought we established that we must come up with reasonable compromises between the rights of the individual not to be interfered with unduly, and the rights of society to be protected from one person’s stupid decisions. Again; It is not either/or, black/white. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/906 "2011-10-29T19:08:21Z")
Yo **Terr** : Did you ever get around to asking your wife (who is a physician) what her opinion would be about letting folks get whatever antibiotics they want over the counter, without a visit to a doctor or a diagnosis? Does she think (as a doctor) that this would be a fine idea? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/907 "2011-10-29T19:09:51Z")
> [@IdahoMauleMan](#): > > You’re right. Something bad just happened to me. > > So if I send you a PayPal account address, would you mind sending me $1000? Come to think if it, let’s make it a cool $2000. And if you want to send more, I wouldn’t mind. > > Thanks in advance. > > Once I receive your money, I’ll gladly renounce my libertarian beliefs and start agreeing with you and your colleagues on every one of your political points. You are free to use our existing safety net. And you’re welcome. Thanks to the votes of people like me, people like you can have a hand up when necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/908 "2011-10-29T20:00:45Z")
Purely anecdotal evidence…but…a friend of mine, flat broke, has severe cataracts, which are getting worse. On his way to being blind. He doesn’t have enough rich friends to pay for the necessary surgery, and he has no family. He just qualified for public assistance and will get the surgery, preventing him from going blind…thus retaining his ability to work, and, eventually, paying taxes. It is in the welfare agencies’ interest to spend a little money on him, now, rather than a lot of money later. A better U.S. health care program could also save a lot of money, treating diseases early rather than at the emergency-room stage. A measured amount of social safety-net saves money. Or, of course, we could just let people die. (Applause from certain segments of the audience…) Trinopus ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/909 "2011-10-29T20:31:31Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > No. The fact that you ask makes me conclude that you do not know what “tautology” means. The fact that the rights of minorities are guaranteed by resorting to a majority vote may not be strictly a “tautology”, but it is certainly absurd. > [@](#): > > In a democracy the rights of the individual are weighed against public welfare. Same with an autocracy. Same with a fascist dictatorship. Same with a communist dictatorship. The only difference is who decides what is “public welfare”. > [@](#): > > Currently we are in the last throes of undue restriction of rights based on sexual orientation. Our society, and our government(s), are moving towards further expansion of recognized individual liberties. This is all as a function of representative democracy. Isn’t it fantastic? As a champion of individual liberties, aren’t you thrilled that we are moving in a progressive direction? [/QUOTE] Nope. Simply because what you call “rights” that are being protected I don’t see as “rights”. See my other posts. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/910 "2011-10-29T20:32:38Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Really? Which side has more supporters: libertarianism, or representative democracy? The free market has chosen. LOL. Yes, all those supporters you personally have won over. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/911 "2011-10-29T20:34:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where did I get the idea that you emigrated from Russia to the U.S.? I did. Lived here for a while, moved to Israel, lived there for a while, living in US now. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/912 "2011-10-29T20:36:13Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Yo **Terr** : > > Did you ever get around to asking your wife (who is a physician) what her opinion would be about letting folks get whatever antibiotics they want over the counter, without a visit to a doctor or a diagnosis? Does she think (as a doctor) that this would be a fine idea? Silly question. Of course she wants people to go to a doctor. She’s a doctor. What would you expect? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/913 "2011-10-29T20:37:17Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I thought we established that we must come up with reasonable compromises between the rights of the individual not to be interfered with unduly, and the rights of society to be protected from one person’s stupid decisions. “Reasonable” is in the eye of the beholder. And society doesn’t have “rights”. Individuals do. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/914 "2011-10-29T20:38:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I did. Lived here for a while, moved to Israel, lived there for a while, living in US now. Are you Israeli, or did you just reside there for a bit? I’m just a bit confused as to what nationality you claim to be. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/915 "2011-10-29T20:40:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are you Israeli, or did you just reside there for a bit? I’m just a bit confused as to what nationality you claim to be. I have two citizenships. US and Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/916 "2011-10-29T20:41:07Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Same with an autocracy. Same with a fascist dictatorship. Same with a communist dictatorship. The only difference is who decides what is “public welfare”. At least you now admit there is a difference between democracy and dictatorship. Baby steps. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/917 "2011-10-29T20:44:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > At least you now admit there is a difference between democracy and dictatorship. Baby steps. In either one the rights of individual are often trampled “for the good of the public”. And I can point you to some dictatorships that definitely had majority support. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/918 "2011-10-29T20:46:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > In either one the rights of individual are often trampled “for the good of the public”. And I can point you to some dictatorships that definitely had majority support. Do you not support the right of the people to select their own form of government? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/919 "2011-10-29T20:49:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I have two citizenships. US and Israel. So, I assume you’d also like to reshape Israel’s economy and government, right? I’d also assume you’d be okay with Muslims in Israel having the right to purchase whatever chemicals and ordinance they can afford? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458/920 "2011-10-29T20:54:17Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > So, I assume you’d also like to reshape Israel’s economy and government, right? > > I’d also assume you’d be okay with Muslims in Israel having the right to purchase whatever chemicals and ordinance they can afford? Yes and yes (second yes depending on first one). And I would reshape quite a few other things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=45) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-libertarian-society/599458.md?page=47)