# In a New Zealand movie a woman orders ''flat,skinny, and white'' at a coffee shop ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** coffee\ **Created:** [October 16, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539 "2014-10-16T22:28:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/21 "2014-10-17T23:03:07Z")
> [@robby](#): > > In my experience, when an American asks for cream, they generally mean “half-and-half” (half milk/half cream). According to a British friend of mine, this does not exist in the UK. Not sure about New Zealand. FWIW, at the supermarket where I shop in Moscow, they have always have three varieties of cream, some of it imported from Germany: 10–11%, 20%, and 35%. The first corresponds to Half-and-Half and is intended for use in coffee. The third is whipping cream. The second is what I actually prefer in coffee (when I drink it with cream and sugar), and on cereal. In my fridge right now, I have a carton of 18%, which is the highest rating I’ve been able to find in Toronto (aside from whipping cream). Milk is acceptable only when it’s full-fat (3.2–6%), and then best when it’s heated, as in cappuccino or café au lait. I’ve seen people actually put skim milk (which itself tastes like chalk suspended in water) in coffee. I shudder at the mere thought! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/22 "2014-10-17T23:23:08Z")
> [@SykoSkotty](#): > > Same thing happened to me while working in Sydney - I ordered coffee at the hotel breakfast bar, she responded with, “flat, short or long?” > > “Ummmm…just regular large coffee with nothing added…” > > She responded with, “no clue what ‘regular coffee’ means, but try a long black.” Don’t try to order your style of coffee by saying ‘regular’ in the Boston area either. That means coffee with a generous helping of both cream and sugar in it. They generally don’t even try to clarify what you are asking either because that order and its terminology is so common. You can order a flat, skinny and white at any Starbucks in the U.S. Just ask for an ‘Olsen twin’. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/23 "2014-10-17T23:53:54Z")
American here. “Cream” = “half and half” or “cream”, but not milk, whole or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/24 "2014-10-18T00:20:15Z")
> [@stui\_magpie](#): > > Yeah, we don’t do cream in the coffee, it’s milk and if you want the drip filter coffee best to buy yourself a machine cos almost no place that serves coffee use them. What’s wrong with drip filter coffee? 😕 What process do they use instead? ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/25 "2014-10-18T01:24:57Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > What’s wrong with drip filter coffee? 😕 What process do they use instead? It tastes like burnt stick water. Seriously, have you never seen an espresso machine? Forces pressurised water at almost boiling point over a little round canister of grounds. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/26 "2014-10-18T01:39:12Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > It tastes like burnt stick water. Seriously, have you never seen an espresso machine? Forces pressurised water at almost boiling point over a little round canister of grounds. Yes, of course, when I drink espresso or espresso-based beverages. I can’t imagine downing a standard mug of the stuff, though. I mean, I like my coffee strong, but not so strong that I get tachycardia! :eek: French press is the best for regular coffee. Filter drip is fine, as far as I’m concerned. Depends on which brand you use and how you make it (quality of water, ground size and volume, how long you leave it on the warmer). Percolated is okay too (it’s what my dad always had when I was growing up). ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/27 "2014-10-18T02:26:56Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Yes, of course, when I drink espresso or espresso-based beverages. I can’t imagine downing a standard mug of the stuff, though. It’s not _supposed_ to come in a mug; it’s coffee, not a Big Gulp Fanta. ---
**Author:** ![GreedySmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a698b9/32.png) [@GreedySmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreedySmurf)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/28 "2014-10-18T04:17:14Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Yes, of course, when I drink espresso or espresso-based beverages. I can’t imagine downing a standard mug of the stuff, though. > > I mean, I like my coffee strong, but not so strong that I get tachycardia! :eek: > > French press is the best for regular coffee. Filter drip is fine, as far as I’m concerned. Depends on which brand you use and how you make it (quality of water, ground size and volume, how long you leave it on the warmer). > > Percolated is okay too (it’s what my dad always had when I was growing up). I understand offering instant coffee to an American is tantamount to fighting words, but it’s well excepted in Australia, with many brands and some premium brands as well. I’m told by some coffee affecinados that I know, that Australian instant coffee is a world apart from what American’s call instant coffee. As an aside - the thigns you learn on here. I always just assumed that when an American asked for cream in their coffee it was just a term for milk. But it’s actual cream. weird. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/29 "2014-10-18T06:12:52Z")
> [@GreedySmurf](#): > > As an aside - the thigns you learn on here. I always just assumed that when an American asked for cream in their coffee it was just a term for milk. But it’s actual cream. weird. Yesss… but not the same thing that a Kiwi or Aussie means by “cream”… which explains the cross-cultural mixups if you ask for cream in you coffee downunder. 🙂 Food Standards Australia New Zealand defines a product that can be labelled as cream as being: > [@FSANZ](#): > > A food that is sold as ‘cream’ must: > (a) consist of cream; and > (b) contain no less than 350 g/kg of milkfat. 35% fat make A/NZ cream similar to UK whipping cream or US light whipping (?) or heavy cream (?) if I’ve understood correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/30 "2014-10-18T08:12:27Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Nor this American. Milk in coffee is an abomination, IMHO. You have to put in so much to lighten your coffee to any degree that it both cools off and waters down the coffee. Ugh. Cream in coffee feels greasy. It makes me want to eat emulsifier. > [@terentii](#): > > Yes, of course, when I drink espresso or espresso-based beverages. I can’t imagine downing a standard mug of the stuff, though. > > I mean, I like my coffee strong, but not so strong that I get tachycardia! :eek: Around here you can order an “Americano”, which is espresso diluted with hot water. Supposedly named when American soldiers occupying Italy wanted something closer to drip coffee than espresso, but I make no claims as to the truth of that story. Or you can have a cappuccino, latte or flat white, all of which are espresso with hot milk in various forms. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/31 "2014-10-18T11:26:34Z")
Here’s a comprehensive discussion of the difference between a [flat white and a latte.](http://www.coffeehunter.org/flat-white-vs-latte/). I’m curious as to what movie the OP saw. As \*\*Penfeather \*\*said the usual way to order would be for a “skinny flat white”. Filter coffee is pretty much only seen in hotel buffets or the like in New Zealand. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/32 "2014-10-18T11:42:36Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Around here you can order an “Americano”, which is espresso diluted with hot water. Supposedly named when American soldiers occupying Italy wanted something closer to drip coffee than espresso, but I make no claims as to the truth of that story. Or you can have a cappuccino, latte or flat white, all of which are espresso with hot milk in various forms. On vacation I’m thrilled to be able to get a real espresso even at a little beach bar. And when an clueless American is scowling, trying to figure out how to get a just-a-coffee I love being able to say, “Americano”. The bartender smiles and nods, I smile and nod, and the guy gets his coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/33 "2014-10-18T21:18:22Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Here’s a comprehensive discussion of the difference between a [flat white and a latte.](http://www.coffeehunter.org/flat-white-vs-latte/). > > I’m curious as to what movie the OP saw. As \*\*Penfeather \*\*said the usual way to order would be for a “skinny flat white”. Filter coffee is pretty much only seen in hotel buffets or the like in New Zealand. Yeah; it’s difficult to convey just how ubiquitous good fresh espresso coffee is here, nor just how _expected_ that is: being able to get a proper flat white wherever you go is the default setting. Not just cafes but most of the petrol stations have their own machines and baristas, and chains aggressively market themselves on serving the best flat whites: not just in the cities and suburbs, either; the cow cockies and the truckies all want a real cup of coffee now, and the competition is fierce. The lukewarm pot of stale burnt filter coffee sitting on the warmer all day went out 25 years ago: you might find it in the reception area at a tyre shop, but that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/34 "2014-10-18T21:50:24Z")
Even then, that’s probably gone the way of pod coffee - pod machines are cheap and give a basic semblance of espresso based drinks. Don’t think I’ve seen the American style pot of coffee in years. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/35 "2014-10-18T22:48:42Z")
The only time I see filter coffee these days is conferences and conventions, and even then better venues have moved to plungers. I tend to opt for tea if filter coffee is offered to me . And a long blacks(where the hot water is put in first so the crema is preserved intact)is much nicer than Americano. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/36 "2014-10-18T22:53:31Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > Even then, that’s probably gone the way of pod coffee - pod machines are cheap and give a basic semblance of espresso based drinks. Don’t think I’ve seen the American style pot of coffee in years. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a pod machine commercially; there’s one at work, but most people who want coffee just go downstairs to buy one: there are five places that make a decent flat white within 50 metres, and two of them will give you a free muffin. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/37 "2014-10-18T22:57:00Z")
[This article is a pretty good summary of the development of Antipodean coffee within the last thirty years.](http://www.coffeehunter.org/flat-white-coffee-origins/) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/38 "2014-10-19T02:17:18Z")
Once again the US is struggling to catch up. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/39 "2014-10-19T05:06:01Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > It’s not _supposed_ to come in a mug; it’s coffee, not a Big Gulp Fanta. I _like_ big mugs of hot coffee that I can wrap my hands around on a cold morning (or evening) and savor (occasionally with cream and sugar). It’s a totally different experience than sipping a demitasse of full-strength espresso (or a cappuccino or latte). I grew up in the States and have spent the last 20-odd years in Europe, so my tastes are pretty catholic. Except at McDonald’s, if you want an “Americano” you get watered down espresso. I guess I don’t see the point. I would rather just have a _good_ mug of filter drip, however hard it is to find. There was a baffling trend a few years ago of serving something called “French blend” filter drip, which to me tasted like moldy vanilla. For reasons I cannot fathom, it was quite chic among coffee snobs. I haven’t seen it in a long while, thank God, but then again, I’ve never sought it out. I often drink instant coffee at home, purely out of convenience, but it has to be _good_ instant coffee. (No, this is _not_ an impossibility!) Taster’s Choice Red Label (full-caffeine) is my brand of choice. Something I don’t think has been mentioned is putting sugar in coffee. I can’t stand sweet black coffee, especially if white sugar is used. Yeccccch! The only time I put sugar in coffee is in conjunction with a dairy product, and _then_ it has to be raw brown sugar. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539/40 "2014-10-19T06:26:07Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Nor this American. Milk in coffee is an abomination, IMHO. You have to put in so much to lighten your coffee to any degree that it both cools off and waters down the coffee. That’s only a problem because your coffee starts watered down, you know 🙂 (_ducks_) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-new-zealand-movie-a-woman-orders-flat-skinny-and-white-at-a-coffee-shop/701539.md?page=1)