# In a nutshell what's wrong with this country: "Elon Musk Throws a S--t Fit Over the Possibility of Being Taxed His Fair Share" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 28, 2021, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357 "2021-10-28T05:52:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/283 "2022-02-25T13:59:07Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Then we are fine, as these are not “special rules just to the rich whom we hate because they are rich”. That would be a made up motivation. It’s literally what Cheesesteak said: > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > We’ve had a certain set of rules for decades, and now we change the rules because > > > [@tofor](#): > > > > “those people” > > are too rich. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Actually, this would be a matter of creeping _up_ . Most middle class Americans already pay a wealth tax. They pay property taxes on what is, in many cases, their most valuable investment, their house. Are you saying the wealthy don’t pay property taxes? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/284 "2022-02-25T22:22:11Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > I’m saying that creating special rules just to stick it to the rich whom we hate because they are rich will only increase the class warfare, hate, and injustice in this country. I think you have it backwards. We need to stop the wealth gap from increasing to _prevent_ class warfare. The French Revolution didn’t happen because of some inherent piety in opposing Monarchy, it happened because the Monarchy allowed rampant wealth inequality. Allow USA wealth inequality to continue to increase unabated and the poor have nothing to lose in chopping heads off. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/285 "2022-02-25T23:47:40Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > At this point, maybe we should consider a flat tax on all income: pay, capital gains (both long term and short term), passive income, etc. Start at 0% for everyone making $50,000\*\* or less that rises linearly\*\*\* to 40% at $250,000 and any credits and deductions phase out as your income increases so at $250,000 you pay the full share of income tax. I’d go even simpler: flat taxes above the medians of income and wealth. For example, flat tax on all income (from all sources) above the median income. Flat tax on all wealth (of any type) above the median wealth. No deductions or exemptions of any kind. The rates should be set so that income and wealth taxes generated about the same revenue. Balance the slight regressiveness with universal basic income. I’d also completely exempt corporations from taxes, but be extremely careful to capture all forms of compensation or use as taxable income. Let corporations make money and wealth, and let people be taxed when they use that money or wealth in any way. It’s not corporations that are the problem–it’s people who use corporations to shield their income and wealth from taxes that are. Total pipe dreams, but dream I must. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/286 "2022-02-25T23:50:00Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Allow USA wealth inequality to continue to increase unabated and the poor have nothing to lose in chopping heads off. As one of my leftist friends on Facebooks likes to post, “Both the wealthy and the poor alike need to be reminded that chopping necks is the alternative to equitable distribution of wealth”. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/287 "2022-02-26T02:10:24Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Flat tax on all wealth (of any type) above the median wealth. You do realize that that is unconstitutional, right? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/288 "2022-02-26T03:00:18Z")
Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/289 "2022-02-26T03:04:25Z")
Doesn’t the 16th amendment make it constitutional? (I am not commenting on whether it is a good idea…just whether it is legal.) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/290 "2022-02-26T03:25:14Z")
I’m not sure that advocating violence to seize the property of others in modern America will work out the way you’d hope. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/291 "2022-02-26T03:41:21Z")
Violence in seizing property has worked exceptionally well for us white men, has it not? H\*\*\*, we violently stole 46 million years of black people’s lives in order to enrich ourselves. Violence in depriving people of their property is what a system founded by people owning vast forced labor camps is all about. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/292 "2022-02-26T03:52:03Z")
No. The 16th Amendment said you could tax income, despite it being a direct tax, in a manner that was not apportioned among the states by population. As a wealth tax is a direct tax on property, the _federal government_ would have to apportion it to the states. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2022, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/293 "2022-04-07T01:32:13Z")
> **[Elon Musk delayed filing a form and made $156 million](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/04/06/musk-twitter-sec/)** > > Elon Musk was required by the SEC to reveal that he had acquired more than a 5 percent interest in Twitter. He missed the deadline by 11 days, and it earned him $156 million. > _The late filing netted Musk $156 million, said David Kass, a finance professor at University of Maryland’s business school. “I really don’t know what’s going through his mind. Was he ignorant or knowledgeable that he was violating securities law?” he said. Whoever was handling the trades for Musk should have known, Kass said._ > > _The disregard for securities laws — whether intentional or accidental — highlights the way billionaires and powerful individuals can skirt federal rules and even tax code to continue to build their wealth._ Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2022, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/294 "2022-04-14T15:25:53Z")
And now, this: > **[Elon Musk attempts hostile takeover of Twitter, calling path ‘painful’](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/04/14/elon-musk-twitter-takeover-bid/)** > > He wants to take the company private and has offered $54.20 per share. Earlier this year he became Twitter’s largest shareholder. I could personally give fuck all about Twitter since the only legitimate use I’ve ever found for it is the [A Meme Page To Check Every Time Matlab Crashes](https://twitter.com/memecrashes), and since switching over to doing all data mushing in Python/NumPy/SciPy I’ve had approximately zero incidence of having my analysis crash in mid-stream so even that is just academic, but I do find it mildly surprising that Musk missed the opportunity to do a pseudo-clever ‘sick burn’ of making his bidding price $51.50. I’m sure the Muskoteers (Muskovites? Muskmen?) will spin this as being some great largess to humanity as whole and a boon to “free speech” for any wanker looking to spew conspiranoia far and wide but it seems peculiar that a guy who is so busy personally saving the world by making [overpriced, poor quality electric cars](https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/17/cars/tesla-consumer-reports-drop/index.html), repeated setting fire to [Padre Island National Seashore](https://www.nps.gov/pais/index.htm), and [pursuing a petty, one-sided feud with a former minor functionary of a toothless regulatory agencty](https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musks-tesla-asked-law-firm-to-fire-associate-hired-from-sec-11642265007) has enough free time to fuck with a social media platform that will probably be defunct as MySpace in five years anyway once someone figures out a better way to push peoples’ emotional buttons more directly. At least he isn’t stirring shit with Putin anymore by [playing at being the loudest edgelord on the Internets](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/elon-musk-tries-to-pick-fight-with-vladimir-putin-on-twitter/ar-AAV3pWe) instead of doing something remotely beneficial with his massive (if mostly imaginary) wealth. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/295 "2022-04-14T15:33:23Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > …has enough free time to fuck with a social media platform that will probably be defunct as MySpace in five years anyway once someone figures out a better way to push peoples’ emotional buttons more directly. I wonder if this has anything to do with it? [https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/elon-musk-sued-by-shareholders-over-delay-in-disclosing-twitter-stake](https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/elon-musk-sued-by-shareholders-over-delay-in-disclosing-twitter-stake) ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2022, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/296 "2022-04-14T15:47:55Z")
The major repository of the wealth of the middle class is taxed. It’s called the property tax. But with the rich, their home _isn’t_ the major repository of their wealth. What is? Not sure, frankly. But I bet it isn’t being taxed even to the degree that yours and my homes are. Remember also that taxes pay for “the system” and that the rich get a heck of a lot more use out of the system than you and I do. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2022, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/297 "2022-04-14T15:50:01Z")
I’ll just leave this here (published yesterday): > **[Wealthiest Americans pay just 3.4% of income in taxes, investigation reveals](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/13/wealthiest-americans-tax-income-propublica-investigation)** > > Tax records from 2014 to 2018, analysed by ProPublica, show 25 Americans collectively earned $401bn but paid just $13.6bn ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/298 "2022-04-14T18:36:51Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > So the feds would have $23 Billion and Gates would be $100 Billion poorer? That doesn’t seem like a very good trade. Was that your point? I realize that this post was before the bump, but I couldn’t let it go by unchallenged. This comparison is very bad math. The difference in Gates fortune as calculated as the final change in his fortune taking rate of growth into account, while the feds money is counted by just adding up the raw unadjusted dollars. In order to properly do the math you would have to adjust for interest that would have accumulated on that $10 million taken in 1985 over the intervening 35 years, and similarly all the other years. Assuming the same average rate of growth as Gate’s fortune the two values would be identical. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/299 "2022-04-14T18:40:29Z")
Exactly. As I clarified in a later post, the $100 billion in gains doesn’t disappear, those gains just in the pockets of people not named Bill Gates. ---
**Author:** ![nate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nate/32/13085_2.png) [@nate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nate)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/300 "2022-04-14T19:27:14Z")
How do the feds gain interest on the $10 million? ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/301 "2022-04-14T19:43:40Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I do find it mildly surprising that Musk missed the opportunity to do a pseudo-clever ‘sick burn’ of making his bidding price $51.50. The bid price was actually $54.20, so Musk did make a pseudo-clever pot reference. Such an edgelord. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/302 "2022-04-14T19:44:19Z")
Mostly by not paying interest on treasury bonds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357.md?page=16)