# In a nutshell what's wrong with this country: "Elon Musk Throws a S--t Fit Over the Possibility of Being Taxed His Fair Share" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 28, 2021, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357 "2021-10-28T05:52:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/142 "2021-10-29T19:38:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Get rid of the lower capital gains tax rate. 100% agree. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/143 "2021-10-29T19:44:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@Akaj](#): > > > > I’m not sure how anyone anywhere on the political spectrum could be okay with this. > > People who believe that they are simply temporarily embarrassed billionaires, who don’t want to have to pay taxes when their riches inevitably arrive. But that still doesn’t make sense. Even if I’m 100% certain that someday I’ll be a billionaire, why should achieving that status grant me a _lower_ tax rate than I’m paying now as a lowly wage slave? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/144 "2021-10-29T20:04:16Z")
Because ~~if~~ when you become a billionaire, do you really want to have to pay out millions and millions of dollars in taxes? If you are having trouble making ends meet now, when you are merely paying thousands, how could you possibly afford to survive when you are paying millions? I.E. people aren’t good at math, nor at conceptualizing numbers or money in those amounts. They just know that a million dollars is a whole lot to them now, and they think that a million dollars would still be a whole lot to them if they had a billion. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/145 "2021-10-29T20:08:41Z")
OK, I’ll amend my earlier statement. I’m not sure how any _non-idiot_ anywhere on the political spectrum could be okay with billionaires paying a lower tax rate than people of ordinary means. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/146 "2021-10-29T20:10:27Z")
Ah, I see. In that case, I agree. Unfortunately, there are quite a number of idiots out there. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/147 "2021-10-29T20:12:08Z")
When life is handing you a crapload of lemons being on a “winning” team feels good, even if it is only by proxy as a fan. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/148 "2021-10-29T20:12:56Z")
Biden is working on this, something will be passed. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/149 "2021-10-29T20:14:00Z")
How many votes does Biden have in the Senate again? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/150 "2021-10-29T20:14:13Z")
The income tax started like that. Bad road to start down. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/151 "2021-10-29T20:14:50Z")
Something effective? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/152 "2021-10-29T20:19:03Z")
I think it is also a sense billionaires have that they WORKED for that money and deserve every penny. NO ONE helped them. It was them pulling on boot straps and getting there under their own steam that earned them every penny. That and the notion that they are doing a service already for the wage-slaves who work for them. Bad enough they have to pay at least a minimum wage and give people time off for being sick. What more does the government expect from them? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/153 "2021-10-29T20:19:39Z")
@Icarus had a good take on this in a similar thread > [@Why do some believe that lower taxes for high income people is good for the economy?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-some-believe-that-lower-taxes-for-high-income-people-is-good-for-the-economy/953423/44): > > My take on this question is a little different. Discussions on the effectiveness of tax policy aside, the facts are: In the US, Conservative legislators promote and enacts policies of lower taxation on the wealthy. Conservative voters support these policies. Conservatives have been shown to score high on Authoritarianism beliefs. In my opinion, the observed support of lower income Conservatives for lower taxation of the wealthy is an expression of the Authoritarian mindset. The lower incom… ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/154 "2021-10-29T20:26:54Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > @Icarus had a good take on this in a similar thread Sadly, they’re probably onto something. IOW, it’s idiots all the way down. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/155 "2021-10-29T20:41:55Z")
They are billionaires because they deserve to be billionaires, and if they deserve to be be billionaires, then we should be giving them money, not taking it away. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/156 "2021-10-29T20:43:55Z")
As a former Republican I frequently argue a lot with my still-Republican friends; while it would get me excommunicated from the party these days (had I not already left), at one point in time it wasn’t a crazy idea that while business shouldn’t be onerously regulated and taxed, there was no inherent problem with the _idea_ of Government regulations and taxes. There’s a genuine number of the Republican entrepreneurial class who truly believe they have never received one iota of benefit from government in their lives, and that the entirety of their success is due to absolutely nothing other than their own hard work and ability (luck and society have NO part to play.) An interesting thought exercise I like to subject these types to is to propose they think about what would have happened if say, 15 years ago, they took the same amount of money they invested in their own businesses to start them, and invested them in a similar business in a region/country with little or no government: South Sudan, Somalia etc. Do they think they would enjoy similar success and quality of life as they enjoy now? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/157 "2021-10-29T21:01:56Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > There’s a genuine number of the Republican entrepreneurial class who truly believe they have never received one iota of benefit from government in their lives, and that the entirety of their success is due to absolutely nothing other than their own hard work and ability (luck and society have NO part to play.) In conversations with my conservative (non-MAGA types) friends, it is probably the pinnacle of an insult if I even imply that _any_ of their success involved _any_ measure of good fortune (including the ‘hand you’re dealt’) or common goods (relatively healthy, relatively educated work force, infrastructure, computer technology, the Internet, etc.) Many’s the comedian who muses that these people “were born on third base and think they hit a triple.” ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/158 "2021-10-29T21:51:01Z")
I think it was mentioned upthread, but I think that part of the problem is that people don’t really understand how our tax system works, and don’t appreciate the nuance of an “effective tax rate.” I remember when Congresswoman AOC suggested a 70% tax rate. I heard conversations where people were apoplectic. Of course, she proposed it on taxable income over $10 million, and it would only apply to that portion of the income above that threshold - so a person making $11 million is only hit with an additional $700,000 in taxes. Now, you can quibble over whether that’s fair, but too many people can’t get to that point in a discussion because they are imaging that a hard working successful person would have nearly 2/3 of their income confiscated by the government. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/159 "2021-10-29T22:06:00Z")
Which tax rate is lower for billionaires? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/160 "2021-10-29T22:11:35Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Now, you can quibble over whether that’s fair, but too many people can’t get to that point in a discussion because they are imaging that a hard working successful person would have nearly 2/3 of their income confiscated by the government. [![](https://external-preview.redd.it/NZfw1pGakmQ_4YtGA3c8-taj7arkIl8eiZWKJHgnVto.jpg?auto=webp&s=9d409c6a3b6036fbbdac488e991511285bd5d608) ](https://external-preview.redd.it/NZfw1pGakmQ_4YtGA3c8-taj7arkIl8eiZWKJHgnVto.jpg?auto=webp&s=9d409c6a3b6036fbbdac488e991511285bd5d608) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357/161 "2021-10-29T23:19:52Z")
You said he isn’t paying his taxes. Absent evidence to the contrary, he is. Tax avoidance is rational and common. And perfectly legal, as you alluded to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-nutshell-whats-wrong-with-this-country-elon-musk-throws-a-s-t-fit-over-the-possibility-of-being-taxed-his-fair-share/953357.md?page=9)