# In a phonetic alphabet, what constitutes a "letter"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 10, 2009, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660 "2009-01-10T11:46:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/1 "2009-01-10T11:46:02Z")
Today’s (1/9/09) Final Jeopardy: _In the phonetic alphabet used by the U.S. military, it’s the only letter that has the same name as a warrior people._ A contestant with the response “Zulu” was deemed correct, and another whose response was merely “Z” was ruled incorrect. This is causing a minor controversy amongst viewers, so I thought I’d ask here. In an alphabet, like the NATO/military phonetic alphabet, whose letters are represented by words, what is the definition or name of a “letter”? ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/2 "2009-01-10T12:27:16Z")
Wikipedia, and apparently the ITU ([http://life.itu.ch/radioclub/rr/ap14.htm](http://life.itu.ch/radioclub/rr/ap14.htm) ) calls Zulu a “code word”. I’d say the Jeopardy judges suck. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/3 "2009-01-10T12:34:40Z")
‘Z’ can’t be right in any case, since there’s no warrior people named ‘Z’; at best, the question is wrong, if ‘Zulu’ isn’t the name of a letter. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/4 "2009-01-10T13:21:19Z")
If “Zulu” is the correct answer, the question was poorly worded. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/5 "2009-01-10T13:39:14Z")
“… it’s the only letter that has the same name as [something]” The question was worded like crap, and both “Z” and “Zulu” are reasonably correct answers, with “Z” being more correct. had they said “… it’s the only letter whose code word is the name of [something]” or “… it’s the only letter whose code word means [something]” or “… it’s the only letter whose pronunciation corresponds to [something]” they’d have been OK. But the original question wants to know what the letter is, not what the name of the tribe is. And the letter is “Z”. Arguably, the original question wants to know the letter _as defined within the phonetic alphabet_. And in there, Zulu is arguably the better choice. BUthe phonetic alphabet is not composed of code words, but of correspondences between code words & ordinary Latin letters. We don’t _pronounce_ “Zulu means Z”, but that’s what an entry in a phonetic alphabet _means_. So now we have three competing interpretations of the question. It seems Jeopardy is suffering the same decline in literacy as the rest of the English speaking world. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/6 "2009-01-10T13:56:22Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > It seems Jeopardy is suffering the same decline in literacy as the rest of the English speaking world. Yes, teaching most people to read really killed literacy as a concept. In the real world, every quiz show has duff questions like every comedian has duff material and every author has duff novels or shorts. It’s part of being creative: Not everything that Shakespeare wrote was solid gold, either (_The Merry Wives of Windsor_ is an example). ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/7 "2009-01-10T13:59:24Z")
_That_ was a Final Jeopardy question? Has the show been dumbed down that much? ---
**Author:** ![hdc\_bst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9f8e36/32.png) [@hdc\_bst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hdc_bst)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/8 "2009-01-10T15:40:50Z")
The answer should be ‘z’, which is pronounced zulu. The answer ‘zulu’ is not only not a letter, it is pronounced zulu uniform lima uniform, which is not a warrior tribe to the best of my knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![firstname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7ab992/32.png) [@firstname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/firstname)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/9 "2009-01-10T16:53:24Z")
> [@](#): > > In the phonetic alphabet used by the U.S. military, it’s the only **letter** that has the same name as a warrior people. The question is poorly worded, but it seems (in my opinion) that they are asking for the letter, which would be “Z”, **not** the name of the letter. ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/10 "2009-01-10T17:13:43Z")
So what happens from here? Will Jeopardy give that woman 28,000 bucks they cost her by being wrong? Can she sue? ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/11 "2009-01-10T18:06:15Z")
In the phonetic alphabet the letter ZULU is pronoumced zulu and Written Z. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/12 "2009-01-10T19:39:28Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > In the phonetic alphabet the letter ZULU is pronoumced zulu and Written Z. I think **Snnipe** ha the right of it. Other than the IPA, which uses weird quasi-alphabetic symbols to represent different phonemes often gathered under the same “letter” in a typical alphabet, the term “phonetic alphabet” is used to signify the use of clearly distinguishable names to represent the letters, so that the difference between “bee” and “vee”, difficult to pick out over a staticky connection, is replaced with “bravo” and “victor”, easily distinguishable. They are not “code words” but the names of the letters in that alphabet, and “Z” (whether pronounced “zee” or “zed”) is not the final letter of the U.S. military phonetic alpahabet – it’s the letter written “” and named “zulu.” (In normal English, the 23rd letter is written “W” but named “double-you”, with nary a /w/ sound anywhere in it – same concept.) But yeah, it is a _terrible_ question in terms of phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/13 "2009-01-10T20:05:21Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I think **Snnipe** ha the right of it. Other than the IPA, which uses weird quasi-alphabetic symbols to represent different phonemes often gathered under the same “letter” in a typical alphabet, the term “phonetic alphabet” is used to signify the use of clearly distinguishable names to represent the letters, so that the difference between “bee” and “vee”, difficult to pick out over a staticky connection, is replaced with “bravo” and “victor”, easily distinguishable. They are not “code words” but the names of the letters in that alphabet, and “Z” (whether pronounced “zee” or “zed”) is not the final letter of the U.S. military phonetic alpahabet – it’s the letter written “” and named “zulu.” (In normal English, the 23rd letter is written “W” but named “double-you”, with nary a /w/ sound anywhere in it – same concept.) Originally I agreed, and explained it this was to my wife last night. But, you know, that’s just wrong. The letter is PRONOUNCED “Zulu,” but correctly written “Z.” You say “Zulu” on the radio to be clear, but you’d not write it that way. British and American people may say “Zed” or “Zee,” but written it’s still Z. Same with “Zulu.” It’s pronounced that way, but not written that way as a matter of course, because, as you point out, the purpose of saying “Zulu” instead of “Zee” is how it sounds, not how it looks. **In the phonetic alphabet, the symbol Z is spoken “Zulu.”** And that’s the symbol the woman wrote down. The question was phrased thus: \*In the phonetic alphabet used by the U.S. military, it’s the only letter that has the same name as a warrior people. \* The question did not ask for the name of the warrior people, it asked \*which letter \* has the same name as a warrior people. It didn’t ask for the name. In my opinion that’s sufficiently vague to make “Z” a correct answer when written down - though she would have been wrong if she had said “Zee” or “Zed” as a spoken answer to a normal question earlier in the game. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/14 "2009-01-10T20:14:21Z")
I ‘misread’ the question and thought they wanted the letter. But at the same time, i thought it was dumb that they were asking for the letter and not the name of the tribal warriors. FTR, I did not have the correct answer (question/) either. slight hijack, IIRC, (in another recent Jeopardy! show) I tought there was another slightly controversial answer/question, relating to what residents of Moose Jaw, Saskatchawan are called. The lady answered “What is Canadian?” I think the show was looking for “Moose Javian” “What is Canadian?” is technically correct and much more specific than Cliff Claven’s “Who are three people who never been in my kitchen?” YMMV ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/15 "2009-01-10T20:54:47Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > I ‘misread’ the question and thought they wanted the letter. They did. Read the question: “It’s the only **letter** …” ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/16 "2009-01-10T22:03:57Z")
The military phonetic alphabet is as follows: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz. That’s it. End of discussion. The person who wrote “Z” is correct and the person who wrote “Zulu” is incorrect. If Trebek looked at it and read it as “What is Zee. Judges? No, I’m sorry.”, the players should have said “That’s not zee, that’s zulu.” and Trebek should have looked at the other player’s answer and said “What is Zulu, uniform, lima, uniform. No, that’s incorrect.” I don’t think they can sue because I’m sure that it’s in the rules that the judges can do whatever they want and their word is law. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/17 "2009-01-10T22:43:03Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > They did. Read the question: “It’s the only **letter** …” They said “In the phonetic alphabet, it is the letter that…” If they had said, “In the _Greek_ alphabet, it is the first letter” would the answer be A or _alpha_? Obviously it would be alpha, because the question constrains the answer: _in the phonetic alphabet,_ it says. Edit: Should’ve looked a bit closer. The question is, how should said word be _spelled out?_ I can see why there’s controversy. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/18 "2009-01-10T22:54:28Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > They said “In the phonetic alphabet, it is the letter that…” > > If they had said, “In the _Greek_ alphabet, it is the first letter” would the answer be A or _alpha_? Written down, however, the symbol for alpha (which looks like an A) should be acceptable, because that is, in fact, the letter asked for. Saying the contestant has to spell it out is no different from me asking you what the tenth letter of the alphabet is, you writing J, and me saying No, you should have spelled it out j-a-y. After all, if they asked “Which letter of the Greek alphabet is often used to mean the ratio of a circle’s circumference to its diameter” you’d accept π, wouldn’t you? Or would you insist the contestant write “Pi”? ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/19 "2009-01-10T23:01:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > After all, if they asked “Which letter of the Greek alphabet is often used to mean the ratio of a circle’s circumference to its diameter” you’d accept π, wouldn’t you? Or would you insist the contestant write “Pi”? Either: because, after all, _pi_ is a valid transliteration (or whatever you call it). Despite the fact that people here are saying that the alphabet is _spelled_ A B C D E F, when you look up a military phonetic alphabet they don’t just write out A, B, C, D, E, F. They spell out the whole code word. They should’ve accepted either. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660/20 "2009-01-10T23:17:58Z")
\*In the phonetic alphabet used by the U.S. military, it’s the only letter that has the same name as a warrior people. \* They didn’t ask what letter of the alphabet, they asked ‘which letter of the phonetic alphabet’. There is no Z in the phonetic alphabet. ZULU would be the correct answer. However, I agree that either answer should have been acceptable. The person obviously knew the answer or would not have come up with Z. I don’t know the rules to Jeopardy, but if it happened during regular Jeopardy they would have asked the person to be more specific and given them the chance to say ZULU, which they obviously would have done. Did this question decide the winner? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-a-phonetic-alphabet-what-constitutes-a-letter/480660.md?page=2)