# In America, has an armed civilian ever taken down a rampaging psycho? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 21, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962 "2012-07-21T15:32:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/61 "2012-07-23T14:08:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > OTOH, most of the rest of you are correct in that most dudes freeze or panic the first time they are under fire. I did. :eek: I’ve never been under fire, but I’ve been in fires and other situations where someone’s life was at risk: while the worst “customer” I had was someone who’d been trained in how to deal with an emergency, that was 1 in a couple hundred. For the people who found themselves in a bad spot who hadn’t been trained in how to deal with one, the ratio I get (evidently with a much smaller sample than if I was emergency personnel) is along the lines of 100% losing their head. Training isn’t perfect, but it sure does make a difference. You froze, but it looks like you unfroze (or got unfrozen by a mate) in time, and even freezing is an improvement over headless chicken… ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/62 "2012-07-23T15:29:31Z")
I think a big factor in the movie theater shootings was it was a midnight showing and the moviegoers were all amped up. In interviews they were saying they thought the gunman was part of the show. I’ve only been “under fire” in a paintball game but it’s a very very intense experience. I can only imagine what it must have been like to be in a theater unarmed with someone shooting at me. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/63 "2012-07-23T15:48:28Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > I think a big factor in the movie theater shootings was it was a midnight showing and the moviegoers were all amped up. In interviews they were saying they thought the gunman was part of the show. > > I’ve only been “under fire” in a paintball game but it’s a very very intense experience. I can only imagine what it must have been like to be in a theater unarmed with someone shooting at me. Plus tear gas. I don’t know why people keep leaving this out. It’s much harder not to panic when you can’t see because you can’t keep your eyes open. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/64 "2012-07-23T17:00:16Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > In interviews they were saying they thought the gunman was part of the show. One thing I haven’t heard about, and am wondering if it were a factor in this: Was this a 3D viewing? If so that may have helped blur the distinction between the film and the live action. ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/65 "2012-07-23T17:03:31Z")
[Not a rampage, but a doctor at Mass General Hospital was stabbed by a bi-polar patient, who was then killed by an off duty security guard.(the stabber - not the doctor)](http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/10/28/doctor_stabbed_attacker_killed_at_massachusetts_general_hospital/) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/66 "2012-07-23T17:10:39Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > No, George shot himself is the shitter. However, in an interview with a survivor of that “rampage”, a woman who normally carried said that had she had her piece, she had ample opportunity to stop and blow him away while he was firing at other patrons with his back to her. I got that from the book about the incident. That’d be [Suzanna Hupp](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzanna_Hupp), whose parents both died in the massacre. She had left her gun in her car, because at the time concealed carry was not permitted. She would have had plenty of time to take him out, because the shooter actually stopped and reloaded several times. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/67 "2012-07-23T17:37:17Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > One thing I haven’t heard about, and am wondering if it were a factor in this: Was this a 3D viewing? If so that may have helped blur the distinction between the film and the live action. Nope, [Nobody is seeing The Dark Knight Rises in 3D.](http://screenrant.com/christopher-nolan-3d-batman-3-dark-knight-rises-rob-95386/) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/68 "2012-07-24T01:12:48Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Again, considering that the Batman massacre was carried out with legal guns, there **is probably a better than even chance it would not have happened with tighter gun control laws**. The theater shooter also left bomb(s) in his apartment. Should I assume that someone who is capable of building bombs, would never think to actually build a bomb because firearms weren’t available to him? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/69 "2012-07-24T02:18:07Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > If you’ve got a CCW permit, carry your gun, put laser grips on it, extra mag or two, and carry a good flashlight and be ready to pop some mother fucker who starts this kind of shit.:mad: [I have it on good authority that you are a dickless macho fetishistic wannabe.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=659520) I must be true. I read it on the internet. FWIW, I can see the point that adding another shooter, or even multiple “responders,” to the situation has the potential for serious negative consequences. But it’s better than being shot like a fish in a barrel, IMO. So yeah, I tend to agree with you. To the OP: there are several instances where armed citizens stopped a shooting spree, but you won’t hear about them in the MSM; liberal media bias won’t allow for the possibility that guns in the hands of private citizens can be anything but a danger to society. So those stories just don’t get run in anything other than the Podunk Gazette. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/70 "2012-07-24T02:25:04Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > To the OP: there are several instances where armed citizens stopped a shooting spree, but you won’t hear about them in the MSM; liberal media bias won’t allow for the possibility that guns in the hands of private citizens can be anything but a danger to society. So those stories just don’t get run in anything other than the Podunk Gazette. So how do you explain the multiple cites to stories of the type that the OP requested, provided in this very thread, from mainstream media sources? Besides which, even the Podunk Gazette has a Google-searchable website these days. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/71 "2012-07-24T02:40:07Z")
I see youtube, wiki, newsmax, some local network affiliates (the “Podunks”). I haven’t seen ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, or even Fox for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/72 "2012-07-24T02:59:53Z")
Edit: I see, you’re disallowing local network affiliates in your definition of “mainstream media.” Well, that’s a bit odd, IMO. Anyway, I collated all these damn quotes so I’m going to go ahead and leave them here now. 😛 > [@ExTank](#): > > I see youtube, wiki, newsmax, some local network affiliates (the “Podunks”). > > I haven’t seen ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, or even Fox for that matter. > [@doorhinge](#): > > It does happen but it is under-reported by the media. > > \*SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - A citizen with a gun stopped a knife wielding man as he began stabbing people Thursday evening at the downtown Salt Lake City Smith’s store. > > …the knife wielding man seriously injured two people. “There is blood all over. One got stabbed in the stomach and got stabbed in the head and held his hands and got stabbed all over the arms.” > > Then, before the suspect could find another victim - a citizen with a gun stopped the madness. “A guy pulled gun on him and told him to drop his weapon or he would shoot him. So, he dropped his weapon and the people from Smith’s grabbed him.”\* > > [http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top\_stories/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx](http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx) > [@aceplace57](#): > > A senior citizen stopped a potentially ugly robbery at an Internet Cafe just last week. Two guys burst in and were going to rob the 30 customers. Something like that can easily turn into shooting. Thankfully this guy stopped it. > [http://www.ocala.com/article/20120716/ARTICLES/120719790?p=1&tc=pg](http://www.ocala.com/article/20120716/ARTICLES/120719790?p=1&tc=pg) > [http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=8740954](http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=8740954) > [@edwards\_beard](#): > > [Not a rampage, but a doctor at Mass General Hospital was stabbed by a bi-polar patient, who was then killed by an off duty security guard.(the stabber - not the doctor)](http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/10/28/doctor_stabbed_attacker_killed_at_massachusetts_general_hospital/) I will grant that this is perhaps underreported (although as others have already pointed out, it’s a little bit difficult to report “20 people didn’t get shot today” - if you stop a guy after he’s killed or attempted to kill one person, who knows how many others he may or may not have also killed if not stopped?) but it’s just not true that mainstream media outlets never report this kind of story. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/73 "2012-07-24T05:34:17Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I will grant that this is perhaps underreported (although as others have already pointed out, it’s a little bit difficult to report “20 people didn’t get shot today” - if you stop a guy after he’s killed or attempted to kill one person, who knows how many others he may or may not have also killed if not stopped?) but it’s just not true that mainstream media outlets never report this kind of story. I have no doubt the story is there, but not on the front page, not the headline, and certainly not the 48 feeding frenzy this current shooting has caused on the news. But yeah, part of that is bias, but even a larger part is how newsworthy it is. ---
**Author:** ![Dickerman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@Dickerman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dickerman)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/74 "2012-07-30T07:54:23Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/75 "2012-07-30T10:46:37Z")
Another one for you: [http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050826/APA/508260516](http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050826/APA/508260516) ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/76 "2012-07-30T12:42:15Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Another one for you: > > [http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050826/APA/508260516](http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050826/APA/508260516) Article no longer available foe some reason. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/77 "2012-07-30T12:47:02Z")
Maybe there is a better thread for this, but has anyone heard any mention of how the shooter got in? He kicked in an exit door right? Wouldn’t those doors have been locked from the inside and wouldn’t they have opened outwards? Seems like they would be hard to kick in if they open outwards. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/78 "2012-07-30T12:59:09Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Article no longer available foe some reason. From my cache of the article, trimmed for fair use: > [@Tuscaloosa News](#): > > One man was killed and a woman was injured Thursday during an apparent domestic dispute inside a Wal-Mart on the city’s southeast side… > > Police spokeswoman Trish Hoffman said a witness told authorities that a man had been stabbing the woman inside the store when another man intervened and shot her attacker. > > … > > “It looks like it’s a possibility that the guy who shot the other man will be justified,” Hoffman said. “From what witnesses are telling us, it corroborates his story that the male was stabbing the female and he intervened.” ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/79 "2012-07-30T13:44:17Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Maybe there is a better thread for this, but has anyone heard any mention of how the shooter got in? He kicked in an exit door right? Wouldn’t those doors have been locked from the inside and wouldn’t they have opened outwards? Seems like they would be hard to kick in if they open outwards. He initially went in normally, through the front. He then went out through the exit door, propping it open as he did so. After gathering his guns and other gear, he returned through the propped-open exit door. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962/80 "2012-08-04T17:31:50Z")
Another Incident: [Brownwood, TX Article.](http://www.brownwoodnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9180:authorities-release-information-regarding-deadly-peach-house-rv-park-shooting-video&catid=35:news&Itemid=58) [YouTube link to interview.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g1n8cmwhIY) No mention on the Major News Networks. This man made several 165-yard shots. With a handgun! Not impossible shots, but not your everyday, garden variety marksmanship, either. ETA: the 165 yard is looking a bit long; more like 165 feet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-america-has-an-armed-civilian-ever-taken-down-a-rampaging-psycho/628962.md?page=5)