# In Australia, is it illegal to kill a poisonous snake? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 27, 2013, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455 "2013-05-27T10:18:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/41 "2013-05-28T14:20:48Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > Wow. I’m gobsmacked by this attitude. They’re protected by the law because animals are inherently worth protecting, whether or not they have the ability to harm humans. Thank you for this. I am ‘gobsmacked’ by this too, but unfortunately it is a very common attitude, at least in Canada and the US. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/42 "2013-05-28T14:27:46Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Animals are, or species? My understanding of the discussion is that it’s ok to kill non-native, invasive animals–just not native ones. That’s very different from the idea that all animals are inherently worth protecting as individual lives. Well I don’t speak for the legislators, but shouldn’t there be a justification to kill something rather than the other way around? Cases should be treated individually, there are general rules to facilitate those judgements. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/43 "2013-05-28T15:01:46Z")
> [@Eliahna](#): > > Kept the porch nicely free of hobos too, at no extra charge. And every few months the snake’s midsection was swollen ten times its normal size. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/44 "2013-05-28T15:11:50Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > “Going out with a shovel to cut it’s head off” just because you hear a snake is out there isn’t self-defense. Right. For example, a US Marine most likely wouldn’t intend to harm you in a car park, or might be innocently sunning himself in the yard. Just because he has the undeniable potential to be dangerous if you mess with him doesn’t mean you should go out looking for US Marines and killing them pre-emptively. Think of snakes the same way. > [@Koxinga](#): > > but still, in these parts it’s pretty well acknowledged: rattlesnake = get your shotgun. Sure, but what people habitually do by reflex is neither a guide to morality nor the law. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/45 "2013-05-28T15:30:56Z")
Whatever you say, snowflake. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/46 "2013-05-28T17:11:35Z")
Didn’t think they were so touchy in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/47 "2013-05-29T03:42:19Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > And since you have admitted that you have no evidence for your claim, I think we can discount it. As I’m reading it, one or the other claim must be correct. We have two posters weighing in with anecdote on one side, and nothing else. So I think your position is currently falling behind by a small margin. And just in case you are thinking of saying you don’t have a position: failing to demand a cite for a claim but demanding a cite for the counter claim is taking a position, in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/48 "2013-05-29T03:48:10Z")
> [@stui\_magpie](#): > > I was watching TV and Dad was sitting on the toilet reading the newspaper doing his business when a 3 foot brown snake slithered over his bare feet and into the shower. When I was a kid we had an incinerator in the back yard for burning garden rubbish etc. We didn’t use it much. It had a hole at the bottom for shoveling out ash. I put some stuff in the top, lit it, and a few seconds later felt something slide across my bare toes. Looked down to see a brown snake slithering away. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/49 "2013-05-29T04:32:04Z")
So, there’s no Whacking Day in Australia? ---
**Author:** ![Dioptre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/278dde/32.png) [@Dioptre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dioptre)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/50 "2013-05-29T12:01:41Z")
Quick note in response to citation requests: The best evidence I could think of for “what type of snake is it most likely to be” was to check with snakecatching companies what they get called out for. There will be some selection bias - people are more likely to call out the company if they think the snake is dangerous. See for example [http://www.brisbanesnakecatcher.com.au/Recent.html](http://www.brisbanesnakecatcher.com.au/Recent.html) - a snake catching company’s blog. It supports my assertion about carpet snakes for Brisbane. I revise my statement to say “it’s most likely to be a Carpet snake if you are in Brisbane”. Note that brown snakes feature a lot too, so could well dominate in other areas. My comment about killing the snake for ID has already received the treatment it deserved. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/51 "2013-05-29T12:52:13Z")
I used to work as a surveyor, mainly laying out new suburbs on grassy farmland. There were plenty of snakes around but no-one carried anything to deal with them. We all just made plenty of noise while walking around. No-one ever got bitten because you pretty much have to surprise the snake for it to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/52 "2013-05-29T13:05:34Z")
Oz is a big place, so it isn’t surprising that we have different perceptions about the relative likelihood of encountering different species. I have never seen a python of any kind in the wild, and it was something of a surprise when I discovered that the carpet python’s range includes areas near where I live (South Australia.) I had always assumed that they simply never got down here, but there range seems to extend as far as Eyre Peninsula. Down here brown snakes are endemic, and even though they are timid, just about everyone I know has had at least one encounter with one, but no-one I know has said anything about pythons. But we are a very very long way from Brisbane. (For the US residents, this is like a resident of Seattle comparing local critters to those found in Texas.) I think **Blake** made a critical point earlier. Pythons are climbers and like trees. The loss of habitat with clearing for development and farming probably seriously restricts the range and mobility of pythons down here. Brown and black snakes are much happier slithering around on the ground, and their mobility be less affected by clearing - at least clearing for agriculture. Viable habitat for all of them is a problem however. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/53 "2013-05-29T15:38:34Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Right. For example, a US Marine most likely wouldn’t intend to harm you in a car park, or might be innocently sunning himself in the yard. Just because he has the undeniable potential to be dangerous if you mess with him doesn’t mean you should go out looking for US Marines and killing them pre-emptively. Think of snakes the same way. > > Sure, but what people habitually do by reflex is neither a guide to morality nor the law. What if the marine has a habit of hiding in locations you or your children are likely to tread, and – if provoked even accidentally – would use his knife to maim or kill? I believe the context the other poster(s) are thinking of is where a dangerous snake is found in close proximity to their property. It’s true that the animal can be relocated, but most venomous snakes in the US aren’t endangered species. I doubt that the other poster(s) are advocating seeking out venomous snakes wherever they might be and exterminating them. It does fascinate me, though, that apparently the snake species in the South West US seem to be viewed with more fear than Aussies’ by the locals. I suppose it probably comes down to where you live. I live in Houston now, so the only time I see snakes is at the zoo. But growing up in Arkansas, I can’t remember a summer where I didn’t come across copperheads, cottonmouths, and water moccasins. If I saw a venomous snake within a few hundred yards of our property, I would generally kill it. Not doing so invites injury to people and domesticated animals. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/54 "2013-05-29T22:05:30Z")
I think your rattlesnakes are fairly aggressive, right? They’ll chase you to bite you. Our snakes tend to be more docile. They will bite if you step on them or surprise them, but if they know you’re coming they’ll move away. That’s why every rural living Australian child is taught from toddlerhood to stamp their feet when walking in snake-friendly areas. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/55 "2013-05-29T23:17:21Z")
> [@Eliahna](#): > > I think your rattlesnakes are fairly aggressive, right? They’ll chase you to bite you. Our snakes tend to be more docile. They will bite if you step on them or surprise them, but if they know you’re coming they’ll move away. That’s why every rural living Australian child is taught from toddlerhood to stamp their feet when walking in snake-friendly areas. Do US snakes chase anyone? I’m not saying for certain that they don’t but I’m sceptical. A lot of Australians will tell you the same about Australian snakes. It’s bullshit here and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn it’s bullshit there. People like making up wild stories about wild animal aggression the world over. > [@Dioptre](#): > > Quick note in response to citation requests: > The best evidence I could think of for “what type of snake is it most likely to be” was to check with snakecatching companies what they get called out for. There will be some selection bias - people are more likely to call out the company if they think the snake is dangerous. > > See for example [http://www.brisbanesnakecatcher.com.au/Recent.html](http://www.brisbanesnakecatcher.com.au/Recent.html) - a snake catching company’s blog. It supports my assertion about carpet snakes for Brisbane. Your cite barely supports what you say since it doesn’t give numbers and mentions lots of callouts for both browns and carpet snakes. Also, your cite only evidences snake sightings that result in someone calling out a snake catcher, not the number of snake sightings altogether. Browns tend to move away rapidly when spotted: right away ie off your property much of the time. Carpet snakes are rather fond of _taking up residence_ in houses and chicken sheds. The latter is far more likely to result in someone spending money on calling in a snake catcher. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/56 "2013-05-30T01:39:37Z")
> [@Eliahna](#): > > I think your rattlesnakes are fairly aggressive, right? They’ll chase you to bite you. Rattlesnake aggression varies quite a bit from species to species and probably by localized population as well. My local [Northern Pacific Rattlesnakes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotalus_oreganus) can often barely be bothered to rattle at you once or twice ( _click_ click\* ) before slinking away - you wouldn’t want to step on one, but as rattlers go they’re fairly mellow. By contrast some ( many? all? ) populations of [Mojave Rattlesnakes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojave_rattlesnake) have an ornery reputation - I can certainly anecdotally attest to that in the ones around Baker, CA. But none of them will really _chase_ you ( maybe a couple of feet if they’re running an active defense ), it’s more a matter of relatively how vigorously they’ll defend themselves when disturbed. At any rate mature rattlesnakes are generally ambush predators, not active prowlers. They’re mostly heavy-bodied and pretty slow. Outrunning one would be trivial unless you are an unsteady toddler. I’d be a little ( a lot ) nervous in an enclosed space with a big mamba, but not particularly frightened of evading a rattlesnake.. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/57 "2013-05-30T03:03:35Z")
In regard to the common snakes, I think the comment that the pythons are more likely to try to take up residence in the home and that would mean they’re more likely to result in calls to a snake catcher is correct. Anyway, to check myself I did some googling. It seems the red bellied black snake is the most common snake, with the Brown most likely to bite you. Because the Black is more passive than the brown it’s more likely to hide. This is one link to the most common australian snakes [http://www.australianfauna.com/australiansnakes.php](http://www.australianfauna.com/australiansnakes.php) This one is to a snake catchers site from Brisbane. > **[Snake Catchers Brisbane](http://www.snakecatchers.com.au/snake-id.php)** > > Snake Catcher Brisbane provides Brisbanes only 24hr 7 day snake removal service. Brisbane snake catchers has a suburb directory for your nearest snake catcher This one has the staistic that 76% of all snake bites in mainland Australia are from the Brown snake. [http://www.avru.org/vetpet/vetpet\_snakes.html](http://www.avru.org/vetpet/vetpet_snakes.html) Now as far as aggressive vs passive nature, Australian Geographic describes the brown snake as the No1 most dangerous snake as follows: > [@](#): > > Fast-moving, aggressive and known for their bad temper, eastern brown snakes, together with other browns, are responsible for more deaths every year in Australia than any other group of snakes. > Not only is their venom ranked as the second most toxic of any land snake in the world (based on tests on mice), they thrive in populated areas, particularly on farms in rural areas with mice. [http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/journal/view-image.htm?index=0&gid=11893](http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/journal/view-image.htm?index=0&gid=11893) Now, I would suggest that aggressive in this context means comparative to other Australian snakes. Generally if left alone they will leave you alone, the aggressive streak is if cornered or feeling threatened. Now the number of different types of snake will vary dependent on which part of the country you’re in, but it seems that the Black and the Brown are the most common across the board. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455/58 "2013-05-30T03:04:02Z")
More people die by bees here but you don’t run around trying to kill every bee. That’s probably one reason why they aren’t feared too much - the risk is really very low in practise. It’s also a toothless law in that no one gets prosecuted unless they posted a video killing them for fun or the like. The main reason it’s pointless to kill them is that for every one you see there’s all the others you don’t. At best it’s a way to feel better than anything that really improves safety unless its actually in your house or the like. Otara [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-australia-is-it-illegal-to-kill-a-poisonous-snake/659455.md?page=2)