# In BBQ, why mod a hint at a racist joke but not an actual racial slur? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 26, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970 "2021-05-26T17:49:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/203 "2021-05-31T11:42:15Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Arguing about semantics is a huge chunk of what this board does so of course we are. Yes, of course. And in that spirit, I’ll say that we could probably have a bright line rule about using multiple IDs, but we’d need to rewrite the existing rule to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2021, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/205 "2021-05-31T22:41:00Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Obsessed in a good way or a bad way? He’s pro-Lawry’s. It’s gotten quite a few mentions along the way. > [@](#): > > BTW, Harriot is a great writer with style. Sometimes I read him and I’m chuckling along and I suddenly realize “Holy crap! He’s right!” Yes, he gets away with saying a lot of outrageous things because he’s usually right on the money. The fact that his style triggers a certain subset of the population just gives him more material for the Clapback column. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2021, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/206 "2021-06-01T04:06:51Z")
Why is this post flagged by the community and temporarily hidden? I didn’t even know a moderator posting as a mod could be hidden like that. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2021, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/207 "2021-06-01T04:23:06Z")
The community member who flagged it was me, and I did so because it was a response to post that was deleted, by a poster who was banned (by another mod) as i was writing the response. So my post was just weird and irrelevant. I didn’t realize it showed up as “hidden” or i would have just deleted it. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/208 "2021-06-02T15:06:37Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Exactly. I’ve read his stuff before, and he’s not especially concerned with protecting readers’ feelings. He’s wicked sharp. You can’t take it personally. On the one hand, words are violence, intent is irrelevant, and we must modify our language and watch what we say at all times in order to avoid microaggressions. But on the other, if something offends us we are not to take it personally. It’s more than a little inconsistent. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/209 "2021-06-02T15:22:30Z")
gee you got me there ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/210 "2021-06-02T15:25:17Z")
Whelp, I guess that gives us all licence to be as racist as we’d like, then… ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/211 "2021-06-02T16:02:25Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > On the one hand, words are violence, intent is irrelevant, and we must modify our language and watch what we say at all times in order to avoid microaggressions. But on the other, if something offends us we are not to take it personally. It’s more than a little inconsistent. There is a difference of kind between a microaggression that inadvertently hurts someone who is hit with microaggressions all day long, and an intentional call out of the privilege that we who are privileged are likely to take for granted, and not even notice without the call-out. Let me list some differences off the top of my head 1. one is punching down and the other punching up 2. one is hurtful with no conceivable benefit, and the other may or may not be hurtful, but is also helpful to the potential target, who may learn something useful from it. 3. one is mindless, and the other is mindful and carefully aimed. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/212 "2021-06-02T16:11:48Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@mordecaiB](#): > > Same thing with DA now. You can practically see the spittle flying off his fingers as he types. This is not the only example of this in this thread, but let’s all keep in mind that this is ATMB, not the Pit. Try to make your point without attacking other users, please. Personal attacks are not permitted in ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/213 "2021-06-02T16:29:56Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > - one is punching down and the other punching up > - one is hurtful with no conceivable benefit, and the other may or may not be hurtful, but is also helpful to the potential target, who may learn something useful from it. > - one is mindless, and the other is mindful and carefully aimed. I don’t agree with the punching up/punching down thing. Punching is bad no matter who is doing it. If I am expecting someone else to care about my feelings then I believe I also have a responsibility to care about theirs. That doesn’t necessarily mean not saying the potentially offensive thing; it means considering whether it might hurt someone and whether it is important enough to say anyway (obviously microaggressions do not fall in this category). It’s a flawed idea in any case, as it relies on sorting people into a strict hierarchy of more and less oppressed, Oppression Olympics style. This is really not something we should be encouraging. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/214 "2021-06-02T16:38:15Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Punching is bad no matter who is doing it. I’ll be sure to chastise Captain America forthwith… [![](https://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/comics-nazis-04b61702-838d-11e7-b359-15a3617c767b.jpg) ](https://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/comics-nazis-04b61702-838d-11e7-b359-15a3617c767b.jpg) > [@DemonTree](#): > > It’s a flawed idea in any case, as it relies on sorting people into a strict hierarchy of more and less oppressed, Oppression Olympics style. This is really not something we should be encouraging. Far better to just ignore oppression, amiright? ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/215 "2021-06-02T17:37:46Z")
Ah crap. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/216 "2021-06-02T17:42:29Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > It’s a flawed idea in any case, as it relies on sorting people into a strict hierarchy of more and less oppressed, Oppression Olympics style. No it doesn’t. That’s ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/217 "2021-06-02T17:52:31Z")
Yes, I wanted to respond to that, as it seems to be a common misunderstanding. If my doctor is Black, and I make some derogatory statement about doctors in his presence, I am punching up. If I make some derogatory statement about Black people in his presence, I am punching down. There is no element of “ranking people in a strict hierarchy”, it is, in every case, dependent on the actual “punch”, which is, 98% of the time, unidimensional. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/218 "2021-06-02T17:58:38Z")
There’s something to be said for banning all racial/ethnic slurs whether or not some are generally perceived as harmless or even laughable. In particular, “wypipo” sounds like it’s coming from a three-year-old who needs his juice box. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/219 "2021-06-02T18:18:09Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > In particular, “wypipo” sounds like it’s coming from a three-year-old who needs his juice box. That’s completely intentional. It’s appropriate for its targets’ mental level. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/220 "2021-06-02T18:39:08Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > If my doctor is Black, and I make some derogatory statement about doctors in his presence, I am punching up. If I make some derogatory statement about Black people in his presence, I am punching down. Do you actually consider it okay to make a derogatory comment about doctors in front of your doctor? > [@puzzlegal](#): > > There is no element of “ranking people in a strict hierarchy”, it is, in every case, dependent on the actual “punch”, which is, 98% of the time, unidimensional. What if you work in an extremely female-dominated profession, and you make a joke that’s sexist against men to your one male coworker? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/221 "2021-06-02T19:46:46Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@Max\_S](#): > > > > My opinion (not that it matters) is that **damuriajashi** ’s post does not rise to the level of _hate speech_. > > And this thread doesn’t accuse him of it, so that’s OK then. My opinion is that **damuriajashi** ’s post does not rise to the level of hate speech or racism, and therefore does not warrant official sanction under current Pit rules. This is predicated on my opinion that this instance of imaginary Black people calling a white relative a _racist cracker_ does not disparage, discriminate against, or prejudice any person or group of people on the basis of race or any other protected trait. **QuickSilver** ’s joke implied that the Asian race as a group is inferior (at driving). It’s a textbook racist joke, even if a relatively tame one. As such it conceivably runs afoul of the hate speech rule, “If you say […] racist things, you may get warned or banned.” ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/222 "2021-06-02T19:49:49Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > This is predicated on my opinion that this instance of imaginary Black people calling a white relative a _racist cracker_ does not disparage, discriminate against, or prejudice any person or group of people on the basis of race or any other protected trait. You don’t see how someone putting racist speech in the mouths of Black people, real or imaginary, disparages Blacks, as a group, as being racist? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/223 "2021-06-02T19:51:11Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You don’t see how someone putting racist speech in the mouths of Black people, real or imaginary, disparages Blacks, as a group, as being racist? I don’t agree that it is racist speech _and_ I don’t think putting racist speech into the mouths of Black people disparages Black people as a group. ~Max [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970.md?page=12)