# In BBQ, why mod a hint at a racist joke but not an actual racial slur? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 26, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970 "2021-05-26T17:49:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/81 "2021-05-27T16:23:47Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, you’re definitely not, based on what I’ve seen from you here. Wypipo [is not a synonym](https://afropunk.com/2017/03/wypipo-explained/) for “White people” Based on that I can’t stand wypipo either. And I know what kind of person that is. ☹ But I do hope I don’t see the slur “kwyjibo” thrown around casually on the board. ETA: To get back to the bright line discussion, as someone who has had to enforce bright line rules at Wikipedia and on other boards where I was a mod, they can have their place but there are major downsides. One is that a person may figure out how to cause the same disruption a rule was meant to prevent by not quite breaking the rule as written but definitely breaking it in spirit. (Basically exploiting a loophole.) The flip side is that it might force you to punish absolutely benign behavior that technically violates the rule. It takes away the ability for a mod to use their judgment in a particular situation and can force them into bad responses because their hands are tied. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/82 "2021-05-27T16:27:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > > > Nevertheless, it has this in common with them: it’s a word that has been used by one class of people to demean another of perceived lesser status; in this case, poor Southern whites. Like all slurs, it punches down. > > So, “cracker” should be moderated because of it association with the history of discrimination against poor Southern whites at the hands of… African Americans? > > This is a big part of my reluctance over moderating the term - it’s not punching down. I feel there’s a qualitative difference between terms coined by an oppressed group to describe their oppressors, and terms coined by the oppressive group to describe the groups they’re oppressing. > > I’m also not thrilled at the prospect of being expected to use a rule about hate speech to tone police people expressing anger at dealing with personal or systematic racism, which is going to be about 90% of the context where this term comes up. > [@MrDibble](#): > > No, other, more powerful Whites. Exactly. It was used by upper class, wealthy white Southerners to demean poor whites. African-Americans adopted the term, but unlike _ofay_ and _whitey_, they didn’t originate it. If you’re really curious about the toxic interplay between upper class whites, lower class whites, and African Americans in Southern history, I recommend W.J. Cash’s _The Mind of the South_. Or any history of the Populist Party in late 19th - early 20th century Georgia. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/83 "2021-05-27T16:46:10Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > I guess I better never mention the old Calgon laundry commercials in the Pit, I’d probably get banned. It’s acceptable in the Cafe Society, though: > [@Earliest TV commercial you remember verbatim](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-tv-commercial-you-remember-verbatim/942917/40): > > “How do you get shirts so clean, Mr. Lee?” “Ancient Chinese secret!” “My husband, some hotshot. Here’s his ancient Chinese secret – Calgon!” [[- YouTube] ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzixL7Ef-bI) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/84 "2021-05-27T16:49:49Z")
In my experience, ‘cracker’ is used jocularly and sometimes with pride, like ‘redneck’. It has always meant a stereotypically southern white person (to me at least). Rich, poor, doesn’t matter, so long as the person isn’t a Yankee. But I live in Florida. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/85 "2021-05-27T17:05:02Z")
Okay, but the argument is that it should be moderated as a _racist_ slur. If it’s a _classist_ slur, there’s even less justification for moderating it. As I was trying to not say to Do\_Not\_Taunt, class slurs aren’t against the rules in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/86 "2021-05-27T17:07:20Z")
And yet in the post in issue, it was being used as a racial slur. Slurs can have more than one target. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/87 "2021-05-27T17:08:15Z")
It’s both racist and classist at the same time. Because it relies on the race of the subject - Black people didn’t get called cracker. Are you going to claim yid or mick or dago _aren’t_ racist slurs, just because they’re frequently used White-on-White? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/88 "2021-05-27T17:09:12Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > ‘cracker’ is used jocularly and sometimes with pride, like ‘redneck’ Example of typical usage > [@Here we go again, Floridopers: Tracking Hurricane Frances](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/here-we-go-again-floridopers-tracking-hurricane-frances/262414/56): > > I’m a Cracker now living in Chicago, but I went through a number of hurricanes growing up in Jacksonville. See also > [@Can white people call other white people crackers?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-white-people-call-other-white-people-crackers/918752/33): > > I guess I’m the only one who has heard of white people calling themselves “crackers”? > > White folks who are native to Florida, specifically, tend to use this term in reference to themselves. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/89 "2021-05-27T17:16:00Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > ‘cracker’ is used jocularly and sometimes with pride So’s nigger (spelled either way), doesn’t mean it’s not still a racial slur in the mouth of a racist. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/90 "2021-05-27T17:18:03Z")
Max, if you look, you can find examples of people who aren’t insulted by a term that is generally considered a racist slur. That doesn’t mean it isn’t a racist slur _in some contexts_. Context matters. Intention matters. How many times do we have to repeat this? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/91 "2021-05-27T17:18:54Z")
On the one hand, DA was pretty clearly using it in a racist context. On the other hand, it was in this bizarre shitty little fantasy of his, in which he imagined another poster’s relatives using it, and it’s such a weird edge-case usage that I can see not wanting to moderate it. “I’m imagining your black relatives, and I’m imagining your racism, and I’m imagining them noticing your racism, and I’m imagining them calling you racist names. Ha ha!” It may be possible for an insult to be too incompetent to moderate. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/92 "2021-05-27T17:20:09Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@mordecaiB](#): > > > > I guess I better never mention the old Calgon laundry commercials in the Pit, I’d probably get banned. > > It’s acceptable in the Cafe Society, though: > > [Earliest TV commercial you remember verbatim - #40 by Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/earliest-tv-commercial-you-remember-verbatim/942917/40) Is sharing a 50-year-old commercial in which Chinese people perpetuate – and then mock – a terrible Chinese stereotype the equivalent of telling a racist joke? If so, I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/93 "2021-05-27T17:22:40Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > If we are only moderating the more offensive racial slurs, it can stay. So as I stated earlier, it’s left to the absolute discretion of each mod and their personal opinions. There is no clear guidance given to the posters, until we step afoul of the personal opinion of a particular mod. This is not rule-lawyering. I want guidance as to the acceptable standards. And the answer seems to be it depends on the personal views of each mod, individually. “Cracker” **is** a racial slur in some forums, for some mods, and will trigger mod action. “Cracker” **is not** a racial slur in other forums, for other mods, **even when being used as a racial insult aimed at another poster** , and will not trigger any mod action. Have I summarised the Board policy correctly? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/94 "2021-05-27T17:29:51Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > If so, I apologize Sorry, I should have included a smilie in my post. 😀 I was just amused by the dual references to the same 50 year old advert. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/95 "2021-05-27T17:36:49Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > “Cracker” **is not** a racial slur in other forums, for other mods, **even when being used as a racial insult aimed at another poster** , and will not trigger any mod action. No, the rule in the Pit reads “Some slurs are likely to be viewed as hate speech when used as insults, some aren’t.” It isn’t saying a particular phrase is or is not a slur, it is implying only some slurs will be modded as hate speech in the Pit. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/96 "2021-05-27T17:38:15Z")
Fine, “cracker isn’t _enough_ of a racial slur”, then. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/97 "2021-05-27T17:39:56Z")
I read **Miller** ’s comments as saying in his opinion, “cracker” is not a racial slur, but something to do with class. I read **WhatExit** ’s comments as saying in his opinion, “cracker” is a racial slur. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/98 "2021-05-27T17:42:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s not the context this time. It was an expression _of_ racism, not a protest _against_ it. Right, but as a moderator, I have to consider the ramifications of my rulings in more than just the immediate context. > [@MrDibble](#): > > And please - being angry at racism is no excuse for racist invective. I’m angry about racism here all the time, and I don’t use racist insults to express it. Plain Anglo-Saxon swears are much more satisfying anyway. That’s great for you, but that’s not going to make me feel like any less of an asshole when there’s another George Floyd, and I get to be the guy who reminds people that they need to center the feelings of white people in their expressions of grief. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/100 "2021-05-27T17:44:10Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@Akaj](#): > > > > If so, I apologize > > Sorry, I should have included a smilie in my post. 😀 I was just amused by the dual references to the same 50 year old advert. No worries. I know that spot would never get made today. (My wife sometimes responds to something I say with “My husband, some hotshot!” Neither one of us is Chinese. 😀) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/101 "2021-05-27T17:44:42Z")
I’m going to be quite blunt: You need to get past the White fragility and do your job. This is like **tomndebb** ’s “I refuse to moderate hate speech” all over again Also, _was_ there a sudden brief rash of _honkeys_ and _ofays_ after George Floyd’s murder? I don’t recall it if there was. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970.md?page=6)