# In BBQ, why mod a hint at a racist joke but not an actual racial slur? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 26, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970 "2021-05-26T17:49:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/142 "2021-05-27T22:24:19Z")
Great post, I thought you hit all the high points. IIRC, you are one of those law type folk, right? I’ll take back some of the dirty things I’ve said about lawyers in the past. 😉 I especially enjoyed the “harpy” point out. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/143 "2021-05-27T22:25:01Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > you are one of those law type folk, right Guilty, m’lud. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/144 "2021-05-27T22:28:06Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > Crom strike me dead! I totally agree with @UltraVires. Seriously, if this board can’t come together enough to set a rule about no using racial slurs, we should stop using the smartest, hippest on the internets stuff, and just admit we are the morons. Precisely. Would also have to abandon that “fighting ignorance” tag - using racial slurs as insults is just perpetuating stereotypes and ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/145 "2021-05-27T22:32:14Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > operate a sock puppet - gone. Right. And not to keep piling on, but under @Atamasama 's hyper-literal method of interpretation, this isn’t a bright line rule. I mean, what if my wife created the sock and I just use it? Am I “operating” it? If I dictate to her what to type under the sock puppet, did I beat the rules? After all, the SDMB never said that it recognizes the law of agency. Even if people “rules lawyer” about semi-legitimate or feigned confusion then it is not like it takes an act of Congress to change board rules. Rules lawyering helps to clarify what is meant by the rule so that posters know what to expect going forward. What’s the worst that can happen? That one poster one time escapes a warning? Then the rule is clearer next time. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/146 "2021-05-27T22:38:23Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > We do have a few bright line rules: > > - threaten legal action - banned. > - use the n-word as a slur, even in the Pit - heavy mod action > - operate a sock puppet - gone. > > Sure, there can always be a question whether something is in fact a racial slur, as the discussion of “cracker” in this thread demonstrates. Some people may not see something as a slur, depending on their personal background. (I couldn’t believe it when I saw posters on this board using the word “Paki”; the Commonwealth posters all had a viscereal reaction to it, that US posters were not aware of.) That is fair. Those do seem like bright line rules with defined outcomes. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > But once a consensus emerges (WP:Talk 😉 ) as to whether something is racial slur, it can then be enforced. That sort of bends what a bright line is, but it’s clear enough. That makes sense. The definition of what it applies to is formed via consensus and that’s how it becomes solidified. That’s fair. > [@UltraVires](#): > > Right. And not to keep piling on, but under @Atamasama 's hyper-literal method of interpretation, this isn’t a bright line rule. I mean, what if my wife created the sock and I just use it? Am I “operating” it? If I dictate to her what to type under the sock puppet, did I beat the rules? After all, the SDMB never said that it recognizes the law of agency. Feel free to completely misconstrue what I said with ridiculous examples all you want. It’s not helping anyone. @Northern_Piper has been very helpful in clarifying matters without your “contributions” here. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/147 "2021-05-27T22:54:31Z")
The concept is one of assigning collective guilt or collective properties based on so-called immutable characteristics in general. Either that concept is acceptable in all of its permutations or it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/148 "2021-05-27T23:13:23Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Feel free to completely misconstrue what I said with ridiculous examples all you want. It’s not helping anyone. @Northern_Piper has been very helpful in clarifying matters without your “contributions” here. Well, color me slightly confused then, too. I think of the sock rule as very much _not_ a bright-line rule. Mods take context into account. Accidently post with your spouse’s account? No problem. Forget your password and email and then create a new account to ping the mods? Maybe a scolding, but not a ban. Actually try to covertly maintain a separate identify? Insta-ban. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/149 "2021-05-27T23:17:16Z")
Yes, of course. Still I prefer to not write out the N-word unless needed. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/150 "2021-05-27T23:19:02Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Another one is “no legal threats”. If you threaten to sue another editor on Wikipedia or the project itself you get blocked indefinitely unless you retract the threat. That is to prevent what is called a “chilling effect”. I have even blocked a celebrity in one case who was threatening legal action. That is a rule here. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/151 "2021-05-27T23:26:28Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Accidently post with your spouse’s account? No problem. That’s not sock puppetry though. You’re not intentionally using more than one screen name, which is what the rules define as socking: > **Socks** - Do not use more than one screen name. We reserve the right to refuse postings from screen names we find objectionable. That doesn’t seem to conflict with the rule as written, at least to me. > [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Forget your password and email and then create a new account to ping the mods? Maybe a scolding, but not a ban. I’m confident that either your new or old account will be banned in that situation. They aren’t going to allow both accounts to be active. But you do have good points that the sock rule might not be a complete bright line. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/152 "2021-05-27T23:28:59Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > You’re not intentionally using more than one screen name The word ‘intentional’ is not in the rule, which is my point. If you do it accidently, mods will take the context into account and act accordingly, rather than applying a bright line rule. > [@Atamasama](#): > > I’m confident that either your new or old account will be banned in that situation. Agreed - and presumably the new one. But the punishment for socking is having all your accounts banned. So again, context followed by appropriate action. But anyway, sounds like we agree, so I won’t belabor the point any more. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2021, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/153 "2021-05-27T23:42:05Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > But anyway, sounds like we agree, so I won’t belabor the point any more I agree that we agree. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2021, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/154 "2021-05-28T00:07:05Z")
I think the takeaway here is that there really isn’t a bright line about what constitutes a bright line rule. Anyway, I’m back, vaxxed, and… really tired. I don’t think I’m going to be one of those lucky, “no side effects” folks, so I’ll make this quick. If there’s further questions, clarifications, or castigations, they may have to wait 'til tomorrow before I address them. So, you all have persuaded me that I’m being too lax about terms like “cracker.” While I think the concerns I raised about strictly moderating it, and similar terms, remain valid, I think I made a mistake in using an edge case to avoid moderating the term at all. While I was pushing back against it initially, the argument about “cracker,” in particular, having both a racist and classist meaning seems pertinent - I think I was reacting to it like it was strictly a classist term, even in contexts (like the one in question) where it clearly has an exclusive racist connotation. I’ll add a mod note to the thread in question reflecting this new direction. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2021, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/155 "2021-05-28T00:38:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Anyway, I’m back, vaxxed, and… really tired. I don’t think I’m going to be one of those lucky, “no side effects” folks, so I’ll make this quick. If there’s further questions, clarifications, or castigations, they may have to wait 'til tomorrow before I address them. I had my second shot of Moderna a couple of weeks ago so I feel for you. It was no picnic. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2021, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/156 "2021-05-28T00:46:29Z")
Thanks, Miller, and I hope the side effects pass soon! ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2021, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/157 "2021-05-28T00:53:09Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Well, color me slightly confused then, too. I think of the sock rule as very much _not_ a bright-line rule. Mods take context into account. Accidently post with your spouse’s account? No problem. Forget your password and email and then create a new account to ping the mods? Maybe a scolding, but not a ban. Actually try to covertly maintain a separate identify? Insta-ban. Yup, not all that bright a line. In particular, we’ve had a ton of people who had trouble getting in with their old IDs, and creating new IDs with the transition to Discourse. Most of those didn’t try to hide it. They often picked user names like Alsopuzzlegal. And by and large, they’ve just been directed to work with the mods to get their old account back ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2021, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/158 "2021-05-28T01:02:27Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I had my second shot of Moderna a couple of weeks ago so I feel for you. It was no picnic Whereas I planned ahead and got a large blanket, some potato salad, cold fried chicken and a Frisbee ready for my second shot. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2021, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/159 "2021-05-28T01:03:05Z")
Frisbee? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2021, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/160 "2021-05-28T01:04:24Z")
It’s what _we_ bring to a picnic. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2021, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970/161 "2021-05-28T01:05:24Z")
Second face plant by me in the same thread! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-bbq-why-mod-a-hint-at-a-racist-joke-but-not-an-actual-racial-slur/942970.md?page=9)