# In Defence of Imus and Disgust for Sharpton **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2007, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743 "2007-04-12T01:36:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/321 "2007-04-15T17:51:47Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Can we exclude jazz from that statement? I agree that many people prefer the whitewashed version, but the Black jazz geniuses are honored, and respected, and their music played with all it’s force and power. [/QUOTE] Sure, _now_ they are. But go back and look at what white people were saying about it when it was a new artform. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/322 "2007-04-15T17:58:58Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Sure, _now_ they are. But go back and look at what white people were saying about it when it was a new artform. [/QUOTE] For reals. Coltrane was the Snoop Dog of his day. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/323 "2007-04-15T18:17:55Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] Good grief. Are you really trying this hard to not see a distinction between trying to get messages heard and trying to prevent messages from being heard? [/quote] If Al Sharpton was bombing MSNBC and CBS and trying to cut out Imus’s tongue, then you could say he was trying to prevent messages from being heard. But he didn’t do any of these things. Imus’s “voice” is not being prevented in any way. You really make your argument sound shrill and hysterical by taking this absurd position. > [@](#): > > Your attempt here to try and argue that I’m somehow in favor of restricting free speech is ridiculous. It’s like the tolerance of intolerance argument. Yes, I _support_ the idea that someone CAN try to lobby and boycott away something other people want to listen to. What I’m arguing is that it is BAD to do so if you value free speech and the free exchange of ideas. But the public airwaves have ALWAYS has standards. They have NEVER been free. Sharpton did not invent censorship, so if you have a problem with what he’s advocating, you’re a little late to the party. I don’t get how Imus is an example of “free exchange of ideas”. He’s just one guy with a mic. He can screen who he gets to talk to, who he gets to interview. He can cut off whoever he wants. That’s not free. That’s a dictatorship. I can’t get my own radio show from CBS. Does that mean they don’t value free speech and the free exchange of ideas? (I love it how all of a sudden, these conservative, “libertarian” types are up in arms about the lost of free speech. Over the past couple of decades, mega-conglomerates have been turning the airwaves into a resource controlled by only a few entities–the Clear Channelization of our media. The fact that local-owned, independent radio stations are an endangered species is more worrisome to me than the firing of some fat-pocketed shock jock.) > [@](#): > > The same way that I support the free speech of someone to argue that we should put homosexuals to death, but can still argue that anyone committed to liberty shouldn’t argue that they should be. I can support someone’s right to say whatever the want without giving them money. If I discover the local homophobe is selling lemonade on his front porch, I’m not impinging on his First Amendment rights by avoiding his stand and telling others to avoid his stand. By saying that I shouldn’t do that (because I’ll hurt the poor thing), you’re saying that his free speech is more important than mine. > [@](#): > > I’m against actions taken to try and lobby away speech and prevent OTHER PEOPLE from listening to something you don’t like via economic threats. Telling people that something is bad and evil and so forth is 100% cool. Telling them that they should cover their ears though, perhaps is not. And acting to try to take away even the opportunity to listen to something they want to listen to (perhaps because you’ve failed to convince them) is not. Not if you think they are adults. Saying GOD HATES FAGS is 100% cool. Me tellling someone to avoid that person and the people supporting that person is 100% bad. Right. I’d like you to find evidence of Sharpton taking anything away from anyone, or him punishing Imus. I don’t think you can. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/324 "2007-04-15T18:19:27Z")
yeah **Contra** , I won’t back down from the statement. Every jazz great I know of prominence, from Parker to Coltrane to Davis (I am a bebop fan more than any other form) caught grief in the media for their drug use and hedonistic lifestyles. Now they’re dead and buried, we can give them the thumbs up. And I would say that jazz has lost its primarily African-American fan base. The only people I know who listen to jazz today are intellectuals. Mostly White intellectuals, which is great, because these cats know and love the music - but I think a lot of Black folks nowadays know very little about jazz’s roots. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/325 "2007-04-15T18:46:29Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] I’d like you to find evidence of Sharpton taking anything away from anyone, or him punishing Imus. I don’t think you can. [/QUOTE] Well there’s [this](http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1995/12/09/MN74133.DTL) event of a protest and boycott gone really, really, wrong which was basically a boycott against a store owner who had the nerve to be Jewish. Do you think that maybe when advertisers hear the word “boycott” come out of his mouth, this little episode might possibly have a little say in how they react. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/326 "2007-04-15T18:55:32Z")
[QUOTE=Fiveyearlurker] Well there’s [this](http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1995/12/09/MN74133.DTL) event of a protest and boycott gone really, really, wrong which was basically a boycott against a store owner who had the nerve to be Jewish. Do you think that maybe when advertisers hear the word “boycott” come out of his mouth, this little episode might possibly have a little say in how they react. [/QUOTE] All boycotts turn into murderous riots, and that’s why MSNBC and CBS fired Imus. They were afraid for their lives, poor guys. I’m starting to think **RTFirefly’s** link isn’t just idle speculation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/327 "2007-04-15T18:55:46Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] I wouldn’t buy talcum powder from anyone who advocates killing gays… [/quote] Then I want to help you out **monstro** Do you fill up your vehicle at Exxon, or Shell ? Get your home heating oil from them? Did you know that they deal and purchase oil with the Saudi Arabian state oil company called [Aramco](http://www.energyforum.gov.sa/html/facts.html)? Here’s what Wikipedia say about [Saudi Arabia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia) > [@](#): > > Although not uncommon and hidden, all sexual activity outside of a traditional heterosexual marriage is illegal. Punishment for homosexuality, cross-dressing, or being involved with anything that hints at the existence of an organized gay community will range from imprisonment, deportation (for foreigners), lashes, and sometimes execution. It could be though I don’t know(after all, I’m not American), that every pump in the States supplies Saudi oil, but at least you should know now who are the clear culprits. Enjoy your ride 🙂 By the way, if a movement could be established to boycott Aramco and their partners, I’ll join in. After all we have lots of oil in Canada and I don’t mind paying a premium for the cause of gays and women. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/328 "2007-04-15T18:57:57Z")
Thanks for the heads-up, **The Flying Dutchman**. I’m not the most ethical person, but I do try to be conscientious in my consumerism. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/329 "2007-04-15T19:00:45Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] All boycotts turn into murderous riots, and that’s why MSNBC and CBS fired Imus. They were afraid for their lives, poor guys. [/QUOTE] Nope. But one that was started by the particular guy who was starting this one did. You really think that no one considered this when giving in to him? Quote from Sharpton at the time: “We will not stand by and allow them to move this brother so that some white interloper can expand his business,” Sharpton said. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/330 "2007-04-15T19:09:16Z")
[QUOTE=Fiveyearlurker] Nope. But one that was started by the particular guy who was starting this one did. You really think that no one considered this when giving in to him? [/QUOTE] Yeah, I’m pretty sure CBS wasn’t afraid Sharpton was going to burn down their studios if they didn’t fire Imus. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/331 "2007-04-15T19:15:59Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Yeah, I’m pretty sure CBS wasn’t afraid Sharpton was going to burn down their studios if they didn’t fire Imus. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] I think most people tend to be a bit concerned when a guy once used a racially fueled boycott to whip people into enough of a frenzy that it ended in a multiple homicide, when they hear him uttering the word “boycott” in another racially fueled situation. Yeah, I think most people tend to have a one strike your out policy on boycotts leading to murder. To his credit, he did at least apologize for the “white interloper” part. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/332 "2007-04-15T19:33:34Z")
[QUOTE=Fiveyearlurker] Nope. But one that was started by the particular guy who was starting this one did. You really think that no one considered this when giving in to him? [/QUOTE] Where are you getting the idea that Sharpton started this one? There were alreeady a number of people grumbling (and several smaller sponsors jumping ship) within two days of the program. Then Imus chose to go to Sharpton. Now, Sharpton would not let Imus off the hook–whether because Imus was too weaselly in his apology or because Sharpton had his own agenda, no one has provided evidence for either claim–but Sharpton did not start the withdrawl of sponsors and Sharpton was handed a perfect opportunity to get himself quoted due to the actions of Imus. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/333 "2007-04-15T19:44:21Z")
[QUOTE=Fiveyearlurker] I think most people tend to be a bit concerned when a guy once used a racially fueled boycott to whip people into enough of a frenzy that it ended in a multiple homicide, when they hear him uttering the word “boycott” in another racially fueled situation. Yeah, I think most people tend to have a one strike your out policy on boycotts leading to murder. To his credit, he did at least apologize for the “white interloper” part. [/QUOTE] Actually, i have a “one strike you’re out” policy on murder. If Sharpton calls for a boycott, and some zealot gets it into his head that a boycott means shooting and arson resulting in the death of himself and seven other people, then the person to blame is the zealot, not Sharpton. Your implication that Sharpton is somehow responsible for those deaths is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/334 "2007-04-15T20:22:22Z")
I’m not talking about **Fiveyearlurker** because I don’t know anything about his politics, but most of the conservative boards were the first people to call for Bill Maher to be fired, and the Dixie Chicks to be boycotted. Remember the french fry/freedom fry boycott? The only time they seem to have a problem with people calling for a boycott is when it’s done by those whiny black people. :rolleyes: Letter writing, and calls for boycotts to raise public awareness have been going on forever in this country. This is nothing new and environmental groups have been pretty successful using this strategy. When the called for boycotting tuna companies that didn’t have dolphin-free tuna it raised a lot of awareness. The Grape boycott in the 60’s brought a lot of awareness to the plight of migrant workers. [http://library.thinkquest.org/26504/History.html](http://library.thinkquest.org/26504/History.html) Check out the WWF site, it’s ongoing. Why is this a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/335 "2007-04-15T20:38:47Z")
[QUOTE=mhendo] Actually, i have a “one strike you’re out” policy on murder. If Sharpton calls for a boycott, and some zealot gets it into his head that a boycott means shooting and arson resulting in the death of himself and seven other people, then the person to blame is the zealot, not Sharpton. Your implication that Sharpton is somehow responsible for those deaths is ridiculous. [/QUOTE] I had intended not to post in this thread anymore because people seem not to be reading my posts, evidenced by non-responses to direct questions and/or reposting the exact information I had posted previously. However, I must correct something \*\*Lurker \*\* has repeated several times. He has conflated two separate incident involving Sharpton and I think, because they involved Sharpton, they were blown out of proportion in the first place. 1. The incident that lead to someone being murdered was in Crown Heights, when Yankel Rosenbaum was stabbed to death by Lemrick Nelson, Jr. This was in the days following the death of Gavin Cato, a nine-year-old, black child, after being struck by a hit and run driver, later proven to be Yosef Lisch. While Sharpton \*was \* involved in the calls for justice in the days after the car accident, **I want you to answer me this: _where has it been conclusively proven that Sharpton explicitly called for people to violently riot and/or to kill anyone_?** You can’t do it. But \*he must have \* because of the Tawana Brawley incident. 1. The interloper comment and incident was in Harlem and involved a store called, I believe, Fast Freddy’s, and its imminent expansion. A man later died in a fire started by someone _whose name was not Sharpton_. Again, Sharpton got involved, due to _already-existing widespread community concerns \* that the tenor of the Harlem community was changing, in no small part due to encroachment like this. Was the expansion of the shop wrong? I dont know. But_ the community had already voiced major concerns about this\* and Sharpton picked up on this. **Again, I ask you: _where has it been conclusively proven that Sharpton explicitly called for people to violently riot and/or to kill anyone_?** You still can’t. Ahhh, Tawana Brawley. So he must have. And this: [QUOTE=Fiveyearlurker] “We will not stand by and allow them to move this brother so that some white interloper can expand his business,” Sharpton said. [/QUOTE] cannot be, in any way interpreted (whichever incident it’s connected to) as a call to riot and murder. By the way, I’m on record on the Dope as saying he did a lot of very wrong things in the Brawley case. I’m also not quite sure that, while he gets involved in many worthwhile causes, he’s not in it for Sharpton, either. All of this is on wikipedia for all of you who have, up to now, believed in its powers to prove anything and everything under the sun. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/336 "2007-04-15T21:04:24Z")
I am not going to repost the same comments in multiple threads and I think that the points have been made on each side several times over, so I want to just make one little observation. **Fiveyearlurker** commented that maybe advertisers are afraid that this could turn into a boycott that could become violent, and that they may be more concerned about that because Sharpton has been involved in such events before. He did not say that Sharpton called for the violence. He did not say that Sharpton desired that outcome. He did say that when Sharpton got involved before it happened, that Sharpton’s stylistic was partly to blame even if he did not directly call for violence or desire it, and that such might give a company pause even it is just a marker of such a risk. Responding to that statement as if he said that “all” boycotts turn violent, or that he claimed that Sharpton was directly causative of the events is unfair. Debate what he actualy said. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/337 "2007-04-15T21:16:39Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] **Fiveyearlurker** commented that maybe advertisers are afraid that this could turn into a boycott that could become violent, and that they may be more concerned about that because Sharpton has been involved in such events before. [/QUOTE] And that would be ridiculous. There’s been no indication that the level of public outrage over this is anywhere close to violence. The implication always seems to be that protesting black people = violence just waiting to happen. Really, really offensive shit. I’m getting sick of it. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/338 "2007-04-15T21:23:15Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] I am not going to repost the same comments in multiple threads and I think that the points have been made on each side several times over, so I want to just make one little observation. **Fiveyearlurker** commented that maybe advertisers are afraid that this could turn into a boycott that could become violent, and that they may be more concerned about that because Sharpton has been involved in such events before. He did not say that Sharpton called for the violence. He did not say that Sharpton desired that outcome. He did say that when Sharpton got involved before it happened, that Sharpton’s stylistic was partly to blame even if he did not directly call for violence or desire it, and that such might give a company pause even it is just a marker of such a risk. Responding to that statement as if he said that “all” boycotts turn violent, or that he claimed that Sharpton was directly causative of the events is unfair. Debate what **Lurker** actually said. [/QUOTE] I’ve read every post in this thread and **Monstro** ’s other thread re: Imus, and I believe he, and others, have said and implied it at every turn. Unfortunately, I’m at the library and my allotted time is running out, but tomorrow I will search for and return with direct quotes that support my belief. However, in the meantime, if he has not said such a thing and/or I have, further, drawn the incorrect inference from the sum total of his posts, I’d like to ask him to respond. Either to these current assertions, or to the questions in the post just previous to yours. _Anyone_ who would like to present evidence condemning Sharpton for the specific actions I mention in that post may respond as well. If no one does, am I to assume that those who have characterized Sharpton’s past thusly, are saying they have no evidence? Excuse, now; I have to go look up some pr0n. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/339 "2007-04-15T21:53:03Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] And that would be ridiculous. There’s been no indication that the level of public outrage over this is anywhere close to violence. The implication always seems to be that protesting black people = violence just waiting to happen. Really, really offensive shit. I’m getting sick of it. [/QUOTE] Well **ywtf** you are entitled to be offended whenever you want to be and read whatever implication you want from what has been said whether that was implied or not. But be real. In the modern America era violent riots have fairly often involved a predominately Black crowd and there have been a few. Mind you that wasn’t the case in the [past.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_racial_violence_in_the_United_States) For most of American history Blacks were the subject of voilent riots by Whites. But the modern era is marked by violent riots by Blacks. And Sharpton has a track record of inflaming situations whether such was his intent or not. To not have _any_ concern that a protest could turn ugly would be to stupidly ignore the last 40 years. Now I agree that there really was no indication that this was the kind of issue to trigger violence, it was not Rodney King and wasn’t police brutality ignored, but who knows what level of risk aversion some executive may have? Maybe enough that it played a factor in the decision process? I personally don’t think so, but I wouldn’t find such a possibility impossible to consider. **5-4** well I haven’t read them all, just the last one that’s been responded to. If I missed others then I am sorry and will stand corrected. If such is the case then eviscerate away. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743/340 "2007-04-15T21:58:38Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] The implication always seems to be that protesting black people = violence just waiting to happen. Really, really offensive shit. I’m getting sick of it. [/QUOTE] Well, but – but – but – WATTS!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: Damn colored folk been acting uppity ever since those civil rights outside agitators got 'em all riled up, and look where that’s got us! :mad: :mad: :mad: You must get damned sick and tired off all those brick walls people keep insisting you beat your head against, huh? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-imus-and-disgust-for-sharpton/399743.md?page=18)