# In defence of Russia **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 6, 2022, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166 "2022-08-06T00:49:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/461 "2022-11-01T22:39:59Z")
No idea if that is accurate. Not too important if an actual surface ship was involved at some point. I suspect Russia was tired of the grain corridor deal. They were not getting their stuff out very well. So the attack was a convenient excuse to drop out of it. Kudos on the attack. Too bad more damage wasn’t done. But again an embarrassment. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/462 "2022-11-01T22:49:22Z")
Consider that I do not bring up these oddball subjects that you guys are. Because I reserve judgment on how valid they are. I do not repeat the wacko stuff said about Ukraine. Because a lot of it is doubtful or outright stupid. Extremists can show up in the military in any country. Does not mean they have any level of influence. Or what numbers they exist at. There are Nazi groups in Ukraine and lots of other countries. Satanists? They never seem to get it together much. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/463 "2022-11-01T22:57:09Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > There are Nazi groups in Ukraine and lots of other countries. [Including Russia.](https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/russian-imperial-movement#text_block_22704) In fact, not only does Russia have a Nazi terrorist group, it was used to train Russian militants in Ukraine to fight against Ukrainian military. That’s the thing about Russia. Whenever they accuse another country of misdeeds, it’s because they are the ones doing it. **They are literally being assisted by a Nazi terrorist group based out of St. Petersburg.** And then they invade Ukraine under the pretense of “saving them from Nazis”. The irony is, they are the ones who sent them into Ukraine. [https://osce.usmission.gov/the-russian-federations-ongoing-aggression-against-ukraine-15/](https://osce.usmission.gov/the-russian-federations-ongoing-aggression-against-ukraine-15/) > The connections between the Russian state and neo-Nazi movements throughout Europe are extensive and well-documented, and many of these relationships illustrate an explicit link to Russia’s war against Ukraine. Just last week, on June 15, the U.S. Department of the Treasury designated one such neo-Nazi – Anton Thulin – as a Specially Designated Global Terrorist. Thulin, a Swedish citizen, was one of three men with a history in the neo-Nazi Nordic Resistance Movement who were convicted in 2017 of taking part in a bomb attack on a refugee center in Gothenburg, Sweden. Swedish investigators discovered that Thulin and another accomplice had received weapons training in St. Petersburg from the Russian paramilitary group Partizan. Partizan runs weapons-training courses on behalf of an ultranationalist organization called the Russian Imperial Movement, which has avidly supported Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The Russian Imperial Movement was previously designated by the U.S. Department of State as a Specially Designated Global Terrorist organization in April 2020 for providing training for acts of terrorism. Despite the all-encompassing crackdown on domestic civil society groups across Russia, curiously the Russian Imperial Movement continues to operate. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/464 "2022-11-01T23:08:11Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > I do not repeat the wacko stuff said about Ukraine. Because a lot of it is doubtful or outright stupid. Come on man! Your Russian buddies have gone full stupid. You’ll need to keep up. I hear next week, they’re going to claim that Ukraine is full of shape-shifting Lizard People, created in a secret NATO laboratory. Maybe it’s true! You want to keep an open mind about these things. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/465 "2022-11-02T01:05:26Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Cite? Asking Kedikat for a legitimate cite is the Platonic ideal of _pissing in the wind_. > [@Kedikat](#): > > There are Nazi groups in Ukraine and lots of other countries. Your hero in Moscow called the presidentof Ukraine a nazi. Care to explain why that’s not incredibly offensive? We aleady know you don’t care to admit that it’s completely wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/466 "2022-11-02T04:41:38Z")
There are a bunch. Search his name. This is one the first I found right away. Screwy story. Changed a few times. But Ukraine security and high ranking officials said he was a spy and executed. > **[Ukraine peace negotiator shot dead amid claims he was Russian 'double agent'](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17857369/ukraine-peace-negotiator-spy-shot-russia-kireev/)** > > A MEMBER of Ukraine’s peace negotiations team has been shot dead amid claims he may have been spying for Russia. Officials in Kyiv said Denis Kireev, 45, a spy and former banker, was killed d… ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/467 "2022-11-02T04:50:30Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Your hero in Moscow called the presidentof Ukraine a nazi. Care to explain why that’s not incredibly offensive? We aleady know you don’t care to admit that it’s completely wrong. Both sides, from high level folks to low level kooks are saying lots of offensive things. I am more interested in the actions and echos of actions of this war. I doubt very much Zelensky is a nazi. So I give it no thought. I certainly don’t feel it worth posting about. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/468 "2022-11-02T04:53:04Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Asking Kedikat for a legitimate cite is the Platonic ideal of _pissing in the wind_. I have posted cites from western mainstream media, western governments, officials, current and historical. Often I just don’t feel like it. Look it up yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/469 "2022-11-02T04:54:00Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > There are Nazi groups in Ukraine And the sooner your pal Putin quits Ukraine, the sooner there won’t be Nazis in Ukraine. > ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/470 "2022-11-02T04:56:23Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Look it up yourself. ‘Do your own research’ is what people say when they cannot support their claims. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/471 "2022-11-02T04:59:05Z")
I did not exclude Russia from having nazi folks. As I said lots of countries have problems with it. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/472 "2022-11-02T05:05:09Z")
But only one of them has made it it’s mission to eradicate the problem in their neighbor. ---
**Author:** ![Jihi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jihi/32/17768_2.png) [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/473 "2022-11-02T05:11:30Z")
Jesus, that guy looks like he’s straight out of nazi central casting. Are we sure that’s not an extra from an Indiana Jones movie? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/474 "2022-11-02T05:22:40Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Both sides, from high level folks to low level kooks are saying lots of offensive things. I am more interested in the actions and echos of actions of this war. I doubt very much Zelensky is a nazi. So I give it no thought. I certainly don’t feel it worth posting about. Jesus, you’re thick. Your hero, using his own accusation against Zelenskyy of being a Nazi, started a shooting war with that as his reason. And you’ve posted nothing reputable. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/475 "2022-11-02T06:28:11Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > I suspect Russia was tired of the grain corridor deal. They were not getting their stuff out very well. So the attack was a convenient excuse to drop out of it. So on the one hand, you have argued that Russia’s aggression against Ukraine and brutal, illegal violation of its internationally recognized sovereignty was justified because Ukraine started hinting of its interest in joining NATO, and this contradicted the “understanding” behind the various treaties — nothing written, of course, but a gentlemen’s agreement — that Ukraine would not move away from Russia’s orbit and closer to the West. So _naturally_ Russia had perfectly good and rational reasons to invade and attempt to eradicate any semblance of the Ukrainian identity that was compelling them to this madness, because the West could never be trusted to keep their word on any agreement that would hold an acceptable line on Ukraine’s situation. Now, here, Russia is “tired of” the grain deal it itself signed into, and that, according to your casually expressed formulation, is an entirely reasonable basis on which Russia can seize a convenient but transparently flimsy pretext to abandon the agreement, and this is normal enough that no further comment is required. Your brain is so slanted that objective reality slides off like блины off a teflon griddle. It should be eminently clear by now that there is no market here for your counterfactual propaganda. Every time you burp up one of your half-digested Russian-state-media talking points, everyone here jumps all over you, tearing every last syllable of it to shreds. Even the casual reader’s opinions will not be shifted by your work here, because your horseshit is so effortlessly destroyed within a few posts of your having drooled it out. What, exactly, do you hope to accomplish here? Everyone knows you are a liar or a moron or both. You are achieving nothing but cementing the reputation of the average Slav as a blind partisan, ignorant of both facts and broader perspectives. Putin is an evil man, the Russian state is a force for evil in the world, and the invasion of Ukraine is _pure_ evil. What, in your tiny mind, do you achieve by continuing your pointless attempts to undermine these realities? ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/476 "2022-11-02T10:50:02Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > I did not exclude Russia from having nazi folks. As I said lots of countries have problems with it. Do not worry, comrad! Putin et al are working on problem! [A member of the Russian parliament and a top member of President Vladimir Putin’s political party, United Russia, has suggested that Russia look to Poland after Ukraine in its quest for “denazification.”](https://www.newsweek.com/oleg-morozov-russia-poland-denazification-comment-1706552) > Oleg Morozov’s comments, which were [posted](https://t.me/olegmorozov0511/585) to Telegram, echoed Putin’s self-described goal of [working to “denazify” Ukraine.](https://www.newsweek.com/putin-claims-denazification-reason-oust-ukraines-jewish-zelensky-1687149) > > Poland should be “in first place in the queue for denazification after Ukraine,” Morozov said in the post, according to an English translation. > **[Олег Морозов](https://t.me/olegmorozov0511/585)** > > Своими заявлениями о России, как "раковой опухоли", и о "контрибуции", которую мы должны выплатить Украине, Польша побуждает нас > поставить ее на первое место в очередь на денацификацию после Украины. Or when put through capitalist pig-swine google translate, > With its statements about Russia as a “cancer” and about the “indemnity” that we must pay to Ukraine, Poland encourages us put it in first place in the queue for denazification after Ukraine. After Ukraine back in Soviet Russian fold, is onward to the Rhine dealing with capitalist Nazi NATO comrad! ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/477 "2022-11-02T10:59:47Z")
I think to the Russians, the word “Nazi” doesn’t mean anything beyond “someone who doesn’t like Russia.” ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/478 "2022-11-02T11:14:25Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > So I give it no thought. …and that explains how every shill manages to keep believing, despite all the evidence in front of them. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/479 "2022-11-02T12:03:44Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I think to the Russians, the word “Nazi” doesn’t mean anything beyond “someone who doesn’t like Russia.” To be fair, if you switched Russia to America, that’s how a significant number of Americans would define it as well. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2022, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166/480 "2022-11-02T12:18:50Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > To be fair, if you switched Russia to America, that’s how a significant number of Americans would define it as well. That would usually be “communist” or “socialist.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-defence-of-russia/969166.md?page=25)